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New Poll - Offensive Speech
I came up with this week's poll. There was some interest in doing a poll related to cancel culture, but I need assistance in what the exact question and the poll options should be.

You can submit poll ideas here
//ra-opora.ru/getmyofferonline/showtopic.php?tid=3903

Previous Poll Results:
Question: I primarily read chapters that are
Choices:
Old (like reading Naruto and Bleach, which finished many years ago) - votes: 419 (17.5%)
Brand new and just released - votes: 995 (41.6%)
Recent but a bit older (a few months to a year) - votes: 977 (40.9%)
There were 2391 total votes.
The poll ended: October 30th 2021

Pretty good split, I'd say
Posted by lambchopsil on 
October 30th 6:45pm
Comments ( 47 )  
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Comments

» residentgrigo on October 30th, 2021, 12:02pm

People should be careful about what they say to avoid offending others. If you think differently than you have never worked in your life and will get in BIG trouble when you do as you will never get a decent job in your lifetime. And good luck with college or an apprenticeship. Rugged individualism is the easiest way to fail your further education. The secret to having a career and money in your account isn´t some merit bullshit about being Da Best in the room. You need to be easy to work it. 110% so. Unless you are rich, own capital, or are at the top. But 1%ers don´t use this site. Don´t spread the pain. Be like Harold instead. Hide it (behind words).
User Posted Image
Heavy weighs the crown on a supervisor like me. Shit is sooo toxic right now due to our head of the sponsoring company who is at the end of their career and thus busy downsizing and punching down. Only a few more months... Ooh child Things are gonna get easier Ooh child Things'll get brighter 😔

Being kind to people will also pay dividends on top of that. Be angry at the system and who made it this shit. Not your fellow Strugglers. Eat the rich, not the poor.

Edit: New Jack City 1991 gave us the word Cancel Culture. Wow. Thx Mario Van Peebles?

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» Peep on November 1st, 2021, 10:35am

Quote from residentgrigo
People should be careful about what they say to avoid offending others. If you think differently than you have never worked in your life and will get in BIG trouble when you do as you will never get a decent job in your lifetime. And good luck with college or an apprenticeship.



That's just your opinion. Plenty of people don't subscribe to the same views as you or I, but they are doing fine in the world. Iunno, about your company, but I've done legal, business analyst work, and programmer stuff, I'm pretty honest with my opinions and at one place a director came up to me and told me a department manager said "[I] am the most polite young man she has met".
As for college/university, I found that working was a much better environment than university. University people had left their parents for the first time and behaved like large sized children, but with alcohol thrown in the mix.

The context of the question is in relation to the current cancel culture, not general communications. Of course it does not serve much purpose to go around insulting everybody you meet or work along side with, it is in fact much better to approach any relationship with a good demeanor to get the best from people. Even a completely selfish person will realize that diplomacy gets the best results.
So in the context of the current cancel culture - yeah, people are way too easily offended, look at Dave Chapelle a guy that mocks his own tribes/groups and is self deprecating. Cancel culture is nothing but mob mentality + group think on steroids with anonymity thrown in. It used to be that if you disliked something somebody said they you debated with them or ignored them, nowadays it is all about censoring people and getting them fired. It does not matter whether you sit on the extreme left, or the extreme right, if you are advocating for "people should watch what they say or else" then you are welcome to your 1984 fascist society.

I personally avoid social media (don't have accounts) as it is a waste of time and I am not interested in what the masses are getting riled up about because of some proverbial laser pointer. You are better off reading a book, working out, or reading some manga.

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» zarlan on November 2nd, 2021, 5:24am


Dave Chapelle? Who punches down, by saying a lot of ignorant, wrong, and bigoted things about transgender people? (a lot of the rest of what he says is fine, and I've greatly enjoyed a lot of his earlier work …but the stuff he says about trans people, Cancel Culture, and a few other areas… It's just wrong, and not funny)
He is hardly cancelled, and continues to do NetFlix specials.

All the other "cancelled" people, are quite successful as well.
All are still celebrities and very able to voice their opinions in public mass media. (a privilege that 99% of people do not have)

Cancel Culture, is about rich powerful celebrities, being denied some shows/events/gigs/platforms, because the people who own those platforms (who are the ones who decide who gets to be there …and you or I certainly can't!) don't like them. Because they don't get the amount of applauds and/or laughs that they feel that they are entitled to.
In other words:
They feel like they are being oppressed, because people don't like/appreciate them as much as they think they should, and speak as if people have to like them and their jokes
…regardless of how dislikable and/or unfunny that they are.

None of them lose their livelihood, home, or anything. None of them get anywhere close to getting in any kind of danger. They are still rich, celebrities, and have massive reach.
…but because they don't get every privilege that they'd like to get, they get upset and play victim.
They go on big popular shows, to complain about how they have been censored, and aren't allowed to speak.

Liars and hypocrites, the lot of them.
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I personally avoid social media (don't have accounts) as it is a waste of time

…says the guy who just made a forum post…

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» Transdude1996 on November 2nd, 2021, 8:18am

Quote from zarlan
Dave Chapelle? Who punches down, by saying a lot of ignorant, wrong, and bigoted things about transgender people? (a lot of the rest of what he says is fine, and I've greatly enjoyed a lot of his earlier work …but the stuff he says about trans people, Cancel Culture, and a few other areas… It's just wrong, and not funny)
He is hardly cancelled, and continues to do NetFlix specials.

Probably because , so it's one of the few times where it's "worth it" to tell people to go pound salt? It isn't that far of a stretch to assume when companies like Ubisoft, who hasn't released a good or a non-broken game in almost a decade, funded their business almost entirely through grants from the , , and governments .

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» Peep on November 3rd, 2021, 8:38am

Quote from zarlan
…says the guy who just made a forum post…

Heh, I have had an account here for many years, and I don't really consider having a forum account to be social media, especially since it just goes with my mangalist account. You could call any form of communication "social media" if you were so inclined, but that is just playing semantics. I am certainly not the type to go on twitter/fb etc and cry over some policy that has no affect on me like so many others do.
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They tend to be very oversensitive, have very fragile egos

Fyi, from your posts you seem pretty sensitive, just throwing that out there (just Saiyin :3). This is just me (not sure about others), but I won't watch a 30 min YT video by a guy that can't look presentable because you were enamored by them.

I've not watched the Dave Chapelle special, or any actually, but you know what? When I try to get examples of the jokes by searching, I guess I will have to watch it at some point to find out - audience rating on it on RT is super high btw :3.
Why do you think transgender is some protected group? From what I understand he mocks black people, white people, Christians, Jews, Muslims, men, women. Why are transgender excluded from all jokes? There's a guy on YT, ruckaruckaali - he makes stupid joke songs that should not me taken seriously, he mocks at white people and Jewish despite being both of those.
If the movie "To Wong Foo" was made nowadays you'd have people angry over it and complaining on twitter and boycotting the actors over some perceived slight that appeared for 4 seconds. Transgender should stop seeking validation from other people, if they don't feel confident in what they are presenting, it is not everybody else's responsibility to reinforce them.

If people want to virtue signal, they can, yet you can see a lot of them are insane. Sending JK Rowling non stop death threats, death threats to a woman that claims she choose to be homosexual. What you have to realize is there are extremists on the supposed left and the right. Cancel culture is not "Rich people making less money", it is people being made afraid, having threats of violence or losing their jobs for having an opinion. They don't have to even be on current events, there are plenty of ne'er-do-well which are happy to go search through 12 years of person x's tweets to find something.
America itself protects the right to freedom of speech beyond that of the EU, in that offensive and even hate speech are protected. So what you have with cancel culture is people whom can't do anything legally so target people's employment, threaten to rape women because they did not like their opinion. It really is a sick trend.., but civil discourse will return when those people grow up/get arrested.

Quote
Cancel Culture, is about rich powerful celebrities, being denied some

Interestingly I've found a lot of people that share your stance tend to dislike people with money, which is what I am picking up. I've lived in China, it might be communist in that the government really does own all the companies, but you won't find some socialist hand out culture there either.

One thing I think a lot of us can be thankful of, is that the PC/cancel culture has not infected the manga industry, at least not to a visible extent. I prefer authors make the best quality work for their fans, not worry about some overly vocal minority that will fine tooth comb anything for offence. The comicbook industry in the west is pretty much failing, they need to release like 20+ variant covers for some comics to make money. I am glad there is no space for people like Kelly Sue DeConnick: "Comics are political!" + "If you don't like my politics, don't buy my book". I've read her and some other SJW stuff and they were garbage, glad I read from an e-library instead of buying.

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» zarlan on November 4th, 2021, 1:32am

Quote from Peep
you could call any form of communication "social media" if you were so inclined

social media (uncountable)
1. Interactive forms of media that allow users to interact with and publish to each other, generally by means of the Internet.
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Fyi, from your posts you seem pretty sensitive

How so?
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but I won't watch a 30 min YT video by a guy that can't look presentable because you were enamored by them.

So you dismiss the words of a person, due to their chosen style? (in this case: Intentionally dishevelled)
Because whether someone is correct, or has good/valuable information, depends on how they looks?
Yeah, 'cause that's not among the most pathetic kinds of ad hominem…
…and yet you accuse others, of engaging in "Cancel Culture"?

Oh, and
Quote
Why do you think transgender is some protected group?

For the same reason that any other unjustly oppressed and discriminated group is.
Also: They are viciously oppressed, discriminated, harassed, assaulted, and killed
…just because they exist. Just because of how they were born.
Quote
From what I understand he mocks black people, white people, Christians, Jews, Muslims, men, women.

He doesn't deny any of those groups. He doesn't make false and slanderous statements about them.
…and the "mocking" is just teasing. Not serious or meant to be taken as being in any way true or factual.
The statements about trans people, however…
Quote
Why are transgender excluded from all jokes?

They aren't.
There are plenty of jokes about transgender people, that people don't get upset about.
"Jokes" that are about stating lies about trans people, and presenting them as fact, however… (many of those not actually being jokes at all, but simply being non-joke comments, that have some jokes around them, with the jokes not actually being about trans people)
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If the movie "To Wong Foo" was…

Never heard of it.
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Transgender should stop seeking validation from other people

You're seriously saying that transgender people should stop seeking to be allowed to exist? To stop seeking to be free of harassment, discrimination, oppression, as well as great and justified fear of violence? (provoked by nothing other than their existence)
That they should stop seeking to be accepted as being the mental gender that, as is a clear biological fact, they were born as, and get rid of having to face discrimination by those who refuse to accept this biological fact?
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Sending JK Rowling non stop death threats

So because some people send her death threats, over her anti-trans bigotry, that means that any and all opposition to her statements are the same as sending her death threats?
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What you have to realize is there are extremists on the supposed left and the right.

That is both true, and irrelevant.
Also, the left has nowhere near as many extremists, as the right.
Especially in the US, where extremism is practically mainstream, on the right.
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it is people being made afraid, having threats of violence or losing their jobs for having an opinion.

That is a lie, as none of that has happened to any of them.
(well, they have gotten threats of violence, but all celebrities have that anyway. Especially those who voice an opinion on anything …regardless of which side of the issue they are, or what the issue is)
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America itself protects the right to freedom of speech

1. That is a preposterous lie.
2. Harassment is not protected speech. Nor is incitement to crime, assault, or discrimination.
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Interestingly I've found a lot of people that share your stance tend to dislike people with money, which is what I am picking up.

No, not people with money.
People with unearned wealth and/or power, who take all the profits, but don't pay for the things that let them gain the money, and do their very best to make sure that they don't.
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I've lived in China, it might be communist in that the government really does own all the companies

In both communism and "pure" socialism, companies are "socially" owned. I.e. they are either owned by the workers (thus decisions are made by the democratic decisions of those who work for the company), or by the State (i.e. decisions are made by the democratic decisions of those who live in the country)

In China, the companies are not owned by the government, but certainly controlled by them …but the government is not a democratic institution, but a fascistic one. The "communist" party rules with an iron fist, and does not allow for any opposition, so how the people vote, doesn't matter. The will of the people is not heard.
In other words:
China isn't communist.
No country is, has ever been, nor will any ever exist …as communism is about a revolution that is always, inevitably, hi-jacked by fascism. (note: fascism is far-right. Not left)
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One thing I think a lot of us can be thankful of, is that the PC/cancel culture has not infected the manga industry, at least not to a visible extent.

Yeah, because it is so great to have manga that promotes rape, slavery, torture, misogyny, discrimination, zealous nationalism, historical revisionism… etc etc 🙄
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they need to release like 20+ variant covers for some comics to make money.

Unlike Japan, where you have (moreso in anime, but also in manga) tons of generic variations of more-of-less the same old shit, over and over again, because the companies want to play it safe and release what they think is popular, because they are only concerned with making money and never making a loss, rather than trying to be innovative and creative.
…and focus on selling to a certain specific sub-group of lonely, pathetic, male otaku with unhealthy, fucked up, views on sex and women. (who are typically all virgins, who have never had a girlfriend …for very good reasons)
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Kelly Sue DeConnick

Never heard of her
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I've read her and some other SJW stuff and they were garbage

So because one or two people, who make stuff that isn't bigoted, are "garbage", that means that no comics can be good, unless they are bigoted?
…and is this not simply you considering them to be garbage, because you don't agree with their politics?
(and yes: all comics, books, films, shows… all narratives, are political. That is an unavoidable fact)
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I know that terf is women that do not accept MTF as women.

Feminist does not mean woman.
TERF is Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist.
Nothing about TERF, means that you are a woman.
…and regardless of whether it does or not: Dave Chappelle has stated, clearly and unambiguously, that he is a TERF.
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but I honestly do not believe people can ever change sex

There are plenty of people who have gone through sex reassignment therapy.
As a result, they go from being physicall male, to being physicall female, or vice versa.
Granted, the process isn't perfect, but in all the ways that actually matter, it's mostly pretty effective.

No person can change their gender identity, their mental gender, however.
That is, and always will be, the gender that you were born with. (which, in the case of trans people, isn't the same as their physical sex. That is what makes them trans. Well, except transvestites. They just like to dress as the opposite sex. They shouldn't really be regarded as a sub-group of transgender, as their physical sex and gender identity perfectly align)
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so spaces specific to a certain sex should be respected.

That depends?
Is there really any valid or justifiable reason, to separate the spaces?
In the case of toilets: No. No there is not even the faintest hint, of a reason.
They should all the unisex.
If there is reason to separate:
Is the separation (and should it be) actually about physical sex, or is it about gender identity?
Issues of physical sex should separate according to physical sex, and issues of gender identity should be separated according to gender identity.

This is an issue where I completely disagree with most pro-trans people on. As far as I am concerned, they are (in this issue) mixing up and equivocating sex and gender:
Public showers and changing rooms (as well as toilets that insist on not being unisex) are about sex. Not gender.
There is no sane or non-sexist argument, for why they should be separated according to gender, but plenty for why they should be by sex.
As such, a pre-/non-op trans-male should go to the ladies showers, but post-op trans-men should go in the gentlemens showers.
(for intersex people, things get more complicated)

Also, when it comes to sport, the issues are about the athletic advantages that (physical) men get, that no amount of sex reassignment therapy can ever erase. (if it's done before puberty, however, there is probaly nothing to erase)
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People waste a lot of their energy on stupid issues like that though

You are wasting a lot of your energy on it
…and how is it a "stupid issue", when it is about a group of people that are severely oppressed, discrinminated, assaulted, killed, driven to suicide…
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Too many people want to put trans on a pedestal

Oh really?
Like who?
When?
Where?
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which is silly because if people want to be accepted as normal they need to have the same duck water off back attitude everybody else has to take.


Yeah, the slaves should have just accepted their enslavement, with a duck water off back attitude…
As should the Jews have accepted their circumstances, in Nazi Germany…
Quote
Censoring people

No "victim" of "Cancel Culture", has been censored.
Not a single one.
Not ever.
So stop spreading your lies.

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» Peep on November 4th, 2021, 3:00am

You could classify a family fridge board or a local community centre as social media if you wanted, the fact is you are just arguing semantics, you knew fully well what I was saying when I said to avoid social media. You just pick every hill to die on.

Why do you appear aggressive and sensitive? I never went through you 300+ posts because that'd be a waste of time, but in this thread you seem to feel the need to confront everybody that does not support your views. I mean, it is fine to talk, you just seem perturbed by something else.

The guy looks like a stoner ver of Will Wheaton. I don't watch Phillip De Franco either btw, he looks less like he crawled out of a ditch, but I am not interested in that type of "news". It has more to do with the duration, 30+ mins I'd watch if it were some programming tutorial or something. I have a friend that wastes time watching 1 hr videos, but that's cause he does not have kids or any priorities beyond that.

Quote
For the same reason that any other unjustly oppressed and discriminated group is.
Also: They are viciously oppressed, discriminated, harassed, assaulted, and killed
…just because they exist. Just because of how they were born.

They are not oppressed though. Women in the middle east are oppressed, in certain parts of India and Asia. Black peeps were oppressed in America before till the 1970's, the Turks used to take Europeans as slaves, the Vikings took other Europeans as slaves. The Ainu/Utari of Japan were oppressed.
Trans are not oppressed, they just want more than other people are willing to give them in an already generous society. Normal people are killed too, obviously murder is bad, but you don't need much reasons to kill when you are insane. There is a "gay panic" and I think trans panic defense though, so you've got that point to an extent, but the motivation behind the trans one is somewhat understandable as a defense.


Really? It is a decent movie, I saw part of it years ago, and watched with my wife the other day. It is about 3 drag queens, Patrick Swayze, Wesley Snipes, and a Latino one.

Quote
You're seriously saying that transgender people should stop seeking to be allowed to exist?


Hyperbole. I never said that. I said they should not expect validation from other people; external validation. Instead they should seek validation internally rather than getting angry at staff that call them "sir" when they look like a dude. If you decide to get a mohawk tomorrow, don't expect everybody to think it looks awesome, get the mohawk because YOU want it, not try to force everybody to love it.
Quote
That they should stop seeking to be accepted as being the mental gender that, as is a clear biological fact, they were born as

Biological mental gender...? You like videos, have one of talking about genders, it's 7 mins, and the gender vs sex thing is within the first 2 mins, I cbb to find the exact time though.

She is not a bigot, she was a woman that was domestically abused and she wants to protect safe spaces for women. UK recently shot down a controversial proposal of being able to "define you own gender on the fly" type thing.
It shows the rotten core that is the supporters, that they'd go after a woman that has brought joy to children and been domestically abused.. then threaten to rape and kill her. Sure, why don't I sign up to support the KKK too if I am supporting that? Of course it reflects badly on what they represent.

Quote
Also, the left has nowhere near as many extremists, as the right.
Especially in the US, where extremism is practically mainstream, on the right.

Antifa? There was a school teacher with an ANTIFA flag and chairman mao picture in his office recently fired. Heard of the bs that is critical race theory? Even black folks have problems with this racist crap being pushed by the left to indoctrinate kids.
If I wanted to be pedantic, I could argue if everybody on the right is an extremists then extremism in that sense ceases to exist since that's half the pop, huh.

People have had their businesses targeted for not wanting to bake cakes, radio hosts fired for their personal views they never expressed on air, the martial arts chick from Mandalorian was fired from the show because she did not list her pronouns when it is obvious she is a woman.

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Hate speech in the United States cannot be directly regulated due to the fundamental right to freedom of speech protected by the Constitution.1 While “hate speech” is not a legal term in the United States, the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that most of what would qualify as hate speech in other western countries is legally protected free speech under the First Amendment.

The right to free speech is enshrined in the constitution, it is one fo the core values of America as a country. Incitement of a crime usually need a specific example, such as I told Nunzio and you to go steal some bread for me, it usually does not apply in open ended things. As I said earlier, threatening to kill JK Rowling and others and calling for people to send threats does not reflect well on that side.

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People with unearned wealth and/or power, who take all the profits, but don't pay for the things that let them gain the money, and do their very best to make sure that they don't.

So you have a problem with inheriting stuff? Of course I am living my stuff to my kids, most people will, and if they are smart they will do it in a way that avoids inheritance tax (theft). On the other hand, maybe you mean like JEff Bezos, getting rich while paying workers crap benefits, yeah that sucks, but that is because the government does not enforce minimum standards. I don't agree with that.
Still, it is a free market, nothing is stopping them making the next google, there are libraries to go learn stuff too and they have the internet which is a grand repository of knowledge.
In Hong Kong people rent subdivided apartments for around 650$ usd a month at around 100 sq foot (maybe 10 m2), I've heard of couples living inside with kids.. The apartments will usually be divided into 4-10 of these rooms. Why have a kid in that scenario, why not study more, when they are from a developed country people have the life they give themselves.

No, they are owned. If you want to open a company in China then you need a Chinese citizen as your partner, generally they should be a member of the CCP. China is not a socialist country, but it is a communist one. They want alibaba group? Boom, Jack Ma is gone and the government now has the money. Antfinance funding Xi's enemy Jiang Zemin? Gone.

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Yeah, because it is so great to have manga that promotes rape, slavery, torture, misogyny, discrimination, zealous nationalism, historical revisionism

Damn, Berserk would never get released if they banned those, a lot of cool manga would not have. Those things are part of the world, we can't box them away and pretend they never exist or do not exist. I won't watch/read stuff that glorifies it though, not into torture porn or any of that.
It is a slippery slope though, I skimmed through your reading list, you have some erotica, what if the person after you decides sexual stuff should be banned. Later we are just left with Power Rangers and Care Bears because those are not deemed offensive.

Nah dude, variant covers aint a different issue, it is the SAME issue haha. Like a limited edition thing, but not limited, they do this a crap ton in comics these days cause comics are not selling well.
Hey! I actually gotta agree with you there on a lot of that. Man, I hate that type of culture, it is so lame. I'd be ashamed of my son if they were 16-18 and could not lift 20kg and was scared of any exercise, the parents coddle their kids too much, but a lot of them have mental disorders. Some are LGBT (which has a higher rate of mental disorders than normal people), but a lot are just outcasts of the system.
I never liked staying in Tokyo much though, felt cold. Naha on the other hand was friendly and people were warm and welcoming.
Speaking of the otaku, my wife was telling me about some news she read years ago about these weird vagina moulds or something, but they were child sized and the packaging had this moe young anime girl on it, that's screwed up.
I've only watched like 2 anime movies in the last 10 years or something, Spirited Away and Your Name, not watched any series, I got turned off a lot of it having the same character design done by computers instead of hand drawn, or dull stories. Might try some later. I read manga at the same times I read books, usually while travelling or some type of low attention needed exercise machine like a bike.

You're not missing much by not reading her, Pretty Deadly was pretty boring.

I read some other stuff by other people cause I am open, but I am not interested in a story with an agenda, the author should just try to tell a good story, not shoe horn something political in there. If it is a good story that happens to be political then sure.
I like "The Prince and the Dressmaker" (I think I gave it 4 or 5 stars on goodreads, I forgot), was that bigoted, or does that not serve your needs to claim that I am a bigot? Claiming I only like "bigoted" comics does not serve you very well :3. I just don't want an agenda pushed down my throat, "I am not Starfire" was trash, and weird for a leftist comic since it "Slut shamed" Starfire at various points. Everybody has a bias, sure. Does that mean their bias has to be plastered across the art form they have control over? If they like, but they are going to alienate people, and likely make a bad story.
I can't presently recall the name, but there was an interesting comic about autistic girl I was reading to understand them better, if I remember it later I could PM you it. I liked the art in Watersnakes, pretty sure that was some coming of age, maybe lesbian story. I don't really like too much superhero stuff, actually if I recommended one comic publisher to you, it'd be Europe Comics.

thread

» zarlan on November 4th, 2021, 8:33am

Quote from Peep
you knew fully well what I was saying when I said to avoid social media.

This is social media, by any definition.
I'm not "just arguing semantics" or twisting word. I'm just stating obvious fact …while you're saying no more than "nuh uh", and proving that you have no case, whatsoever.
I'll not waste my time with bother to respond to further pointless "nuh uh"s.
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Why do you appear aggressive and sensitive?…

…and you then proceed to not even attempt to answer the question, but just simply repeat the baseless accusation. To no ones surprise.
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It has more to do with the duration

Ah. So you have low attention span, and refuse to get to any depth or nuance on any issue? (except programming, I suppose? Better than nothing, I suppose)
Again: Not surprising.
You're clearly fine with spending 30+ minutes on writing forum posts, though.
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They are not oppressed though.


You are either lying, or wilfully ignorant.
If it's the latter, then I must say that I'm impressed at how you've been able to achieve it.
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Hyperbole. I never said that.

It's exactly what you said, and you know it!
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She is not a bigot

The video you linked to, is a video where she demonstrates that she is a bigot.
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she was a woman that was domestically abused and she wants to protect safe spaces for women.

None of that is relevant, in any way. It is nothing more than an ad hominem fallacy.
Quote
UK recently shot down a controversial proposal of being able to "define you own gender on the fly" type thing.

I agree that, that would be going way too far …but that's beside the point.
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It shows the rotten core that is the supporters, that they'd go after a woman that has brought joy to children and been domestically abused


Let's look at a part of my comment, that you chose to ignore:
"So because some people send her death threats, over her anti-trans bigotry, that means that any and all opposition to her statements are the same as sending her death threats?"
Not only did you have no way to defend your statement that paints all critics of JK Rowling as the same as the miniscule part who make death threats …but you repeat the same dishonest bullshit.
Again.
Even more clearly and eggregiously.

Oh, and you do realise that if we're going to use that standard…
There are plenty of people on your side of the argument, who have not only made threats of violence/death/rape, but who have assaulted, killed and/or raped.

…and speaking of which, why not look at other things that you shy away from, and try to sweep under the rug, to hide the fact that you simply have no way to even attempt to justify what you've said (go back and check my comment, to see what I was replying to, where neccesary):

"He doesn't deny any of those groups. He doesn't make false and slanderous statements about them.
…and the "mocking" is just teasing. Not serious or meant to be taken as being in any way true or factual.
The statements about trans people, however…"

"They aren't.
There are plenty of jokes about transgender people, that people don't get upset about.
"Jokes" that are about stating lies about trans people, and presenting them as fact, however… (many of those not actually being jokes at all, but simply being non-joke comments, that have some jokes around them, with the jokes not actually being about trans people)"

"That is a lie, as none of that has happened to any of them.
(well, they have gotten threats of violence, but all celebrities have that anyway. Especially those who voice an opinion on anything …regardless of which side of the issue they are, or what the issue is)"

"Feminist does not mean woman.
TERF is Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist.
Nothing about TERF, means that you are a woman.
…and regardless of whether it does or not: Dave Chappelle has stated, clearly and unambiguously, that he is a TERF."

"There are plenty of people who have gone through sex reassignment therapy.
As a result, they go from being physicall male, to being physicall female, or vice versa.
Granted, the process isn't perfect, but in all the ways that actually matter, it's mostly pretty effective.

No person can change their gender identity, their mental gender, however.
That is, and always will be, the gender that you were born with. (which, in the case of trans people, isn't the same as their physical sex. That is what makes them trans. Well, except transvestites. They just like to dress as the opposite sex. They shouldn't really be regarded as a sub-group of transgender, as their physical sex and gender identity perfectly align)"

"You are wasting a lot of your energy on it
…and how is it a "stupid issue", when it is about a group of people that are severely oppressed, discrinminated, assaulted, killed, driven to suicide…"

"Oh really?
Like who?
When?
Where?"

"…
Yeah, the slaves should have just accepted their enslavement, with a duck water off back attitude…
As should the Jews have accepted their circumstances, in Nazi Germany…"

"No "victim" of "Cancel Culture", has been censored.
Not a single one.
Not ever.
So stop spreading your lies."
Quote
Antifa?

Ah, so you condemn people who are anti-fascist?
So do you promote tolerance/accceptance of fascism, or pro-fascism?
…and you do realise that antifa protestors are no more violent or problematic, than any other protestors? That most violence that has occured, during antifa protests, has either been caused by counter-protestors or police?

…and you do know, that it is a well established fact, that the vast majority of terrorism in the US and in Europe, is perpetrated not by islamists, ANTIFA, the left wing, BLM, or any other such group that you or Fox News would like to portray as the greatest threats
…but by right wing extremists! (and that's excluding islamist, even though they are all right wing extremists)
Quote
Heard of the bs that is critical race theory?

It isn't bullshit, and if I asked you to explain what it is, you wouldn't be able to answer.
You do realise that NO pupil/student learns about CRT, in K-12 education in the US, or anywhere else?
It's a college/university level, judicial subject, which looks into how laws can have racist outcomes, regardless of whether or not they have any racist intent.
What Fox "news" and others dishonestly try to indoctrinate conservatives to believe, however, is that it is teaching kids what racism is, and about how the US has done horrible racist things (these are undeniable historical facts)
…and that this, for some unexplained reason, would make them hate the US and white people.
Which, of course, it wouldn't. Why would it? It makes absolutely no sense.

Want to talk about indoctrination of kids?
How about the fact that they are all required to say the Pledge of Allegience, every school day? Like in a cult.
No other country (a few of the most cult-y fascistic ones aside), has anything that even remotely resembles that.
Or even a Pledge of Allegience, at all.
Quote
People have had their businesses targeted for not wanting to bake cakes

No, but people have been sued for refusing to bake cakes for gay people, despite being a cake shop, open for the public …and therefore having to bake cakes for everyone, including gays.
Quote
radio hosts fired for their personal views they never expressed on air

The problem with that being…?
Just because they didn't express it on air, doesn't mean that the listeners don't know them. A radio show has the choice of who to have on air, and thereby represents them.
If they fired the guy who just takes care of the equipment, for comments he made outside of his job, that would be unacceptable, but…
Quote
the martial arts chick from Mandalorian was fired from the show because she did not list her pronouns when it is obvious she is a woman.

That isn't why she was fired, and you know it!
…and why would Disney want to be represented by, and be seen to promote, someone who is hated by the public, and therefore gives them huge bad PR, and would result in massive economic losses?
Quote
The right to free speech is enshrined in the constitution…


None of what you said, addresses what I said, much less answers it.
Well, you did say "Incitement of a crime usually need a specific example"
…but that is completely irrelevant to this discussion. (and also something I am fully aware of)
Quote
So you have a problem with inheriting stuff?

Not completely, but yes.
A bit of inheritance is fine, but after a certain amount there should be a significant inheritance tax. The tax rate should (much as income tax) increase, exponentially, the higher the taxed amount is …but be a lot higher than income tax.
The same needs to apply to gifts. (most gifts, given/recieved by normal people, would be of too low a value to be taxed, of course)
Quote
Of course I am living my stuff to my kids

…and under most systems of inheritance tax (including how I'd want it to be), they'd get to inherit it all.
Quote
and if they are smart they will do it in a way that avoids inheritance tax (theft).

Avoiding inheritance tax is theft.
Inheritance tax, is not.
What have your kids done, to earn what you leave them?
Nothing. Nothing whatsoever.
That said:
What you leave them, doesn't rise to the level that would be taxed, anyway.
[quote]maybe you mean like JEff Bezos, getting rich while paying workers crap benefits,[quote]
Not just crap (if any) benefits, but also as low a wage as he can get away with, torturous and inhumane working condition etc etc
…all the while he pays practically no tax.
Despite benefiting from tax payer funded roads, schools (his employees need to have some level of education), healthcare (his employees need to be healthy) etc etc
…not to mention the money that Amazon and other of his companies, have recieved directly from the government.
Quote
Still, it is a free market

No it isn't.
Not even close.
It's a market that is heavily stacked in favour of the rich and established.
Big companies get money, resources, laws changed in their favour, the ability to pay as much/little in tax as they want, getting practially no punishments for breaking the law… (meaning that they are, effectively, above the law)
I could go on.
[quote]nothing is stopping them making the next google,
You do realise that Google was funded by plenty of tax payer money, right?
Also, while I'm not sure if the founders were filhty rich, like Elon Musk was from birth, but they were far from poor.
People who actually go from rags to riches, are nearly non-existent.
Especially in the US, which has among the worst rates of social mobility. If you are born to poor parents, you'll almost certainly stay poor.

The notion that you can succeed, if you just work hard, is no more than a myth.
The hardest working people, are poor and unable to get ahead.
The richest people don't work hard at all.
Quote
In Hong Kong…


You seriously just ignored what I pointed out about China, and just repeat your ignorant nonsense?
Quote
China is not a socialist country, but it is a communist one.

I have already pointed out how it is neither.
It is a far-right wing fascistic state.
Pretty much a dictatorship.
One man owning everything, isn't communism.
Quote
Damn, Berserk would never get released if they banned those

Berserk NEVER promotes or condones those things.
It portrays those things, sure, but they are always presented as bad/horrible.
Nothing I've said comes anywhere close to even hinting at the notion that they shouldn't be portrayed.
Quite the contrary.
So why are you acting as if I did?
Quote
Nah dude, variant covers aint a different issue

I never addressed variant covers, or even bothered to find out what that is. (I'm guessing it's just literal, as in just different covers, on the same issue of the same comic?)
Quote
I actually gotta agree with you there on a lot of that. Man, I hate that type of culture, it is so lame. I'd be ashamed of my son if they were 16-18 and could not lift 20kg and was scared of any exercise

WTF are you talking about?
I never mentioned physical strength, nor do I think you've got to be particularly strong.
Quote
the parents coddle their kids too much


I agree that a lot of parents, especially in the US, coddle their kids too much (though US parents seem to be too strict, in some areas)
…but I'm pretty sure that we have very differing views on what is or isn't coddling, and how much is too much.
Quote
but a lot of them have mental disorders.


Not in any way that is relevant to this discussion.
Quote
Some are LGBT (which has a higher rate of mental disorders than normal people)

The higher rate of mental disorders, is due to the discrimination that they suffer from. (though in the case of trans people, it's probably also due to the issue of being in a body that doesn't fit your gender)
Quote
but a lot are just outcasts of the system.


Some of whom? (BTW, the fact that you skip having quotes of what you reply, in your replies, makes you comment confusing and bothersome to understand) If we're talking about the pathetic otaku, who are the main demographic of anime studios, they are outcasts due to being the terrible way that they are.
Well, granted, they may have fallen into social circles that taught them to be that way, due to being outcast everywhere else…
Quote
but they were child sized

Yeah, the weird sexual fascination young teenage girls (the later of which is okay, among teenagers, but I'm clearly talking about adults, well removed from their teens here) and, far worse, lolis… I mean, I get that there'd be some, but the fact that it is pretty much mainstream…
Quote
I read some other stuff by other people cause I am open

I doubt that.
Quote
but I am not interested in a story with an agenda

Agenda or not, all narratives has politics.
(BTW, I dislike it, when something is clearly shoehorned/forced in. Even if it is a moral/political message that I agree with. It feels forced and awkward, and distracts from the story. [also a complaint against pretty much all fanservice] It should simply be a natural bit of the narrative)
Quote
was that bigoted, or does that not serve your needs to claim that I am a bigot?

"I liked this work that is woke, so therefore I can't be bigoted", is pretty much like the old "I can't be racist, I have a black friend" line.
You liking that work, doesn't erase the rest of your views, or what you've said about trans people.

Granted, it means that you don't completely disregard all works that are inclusive, as being garbarge …but that isn't much, and it doesn't show that you don't still dismiss a lot of works as garbage, due to their being too woke for your liking, or otherwise disagreeing with your politics.
Also, I'd like to point out that The Prince and the Dressmaker is completely and fundamentally about being trans. The whole thing is about it. (what kind of trans, I can't know without reading it)
you liking it, whilst complaining about works having agendas plastered all over, shoehorned, and pushed down your throat…
Quite ironic.
Quote
I just don't want an agenda pushed down my throat

Mm, because people who are different, just existing and wanting to be treated like human beings, is them pushing it down your throught…
Oh, and who forced you to read those books/comics, exactly?
Quote
weird for a leftist comic since it "Slut shamed" Starfire at various points.

I haven't read it, but…
1. Does it slutshame Starfire? …or the MEN who draw/write her, and decide how she looks and behaves, and what she says?
2. There are people on the left who are prudish, and people who are a bit too loose about sexual matters. The left isn't a monolith.
Quote
Does that mean their bias has to be plastered across the art form they have control over?

Yes.
Also, "not being bigoted" is hardly something you'd call a "bias".
Quote
If they like, but they are going to alienate people, and likely make a bad story.

No, and no.

thread

» Transdude1996 on November 4th, 2021, 10:19am

Quote from zarlan
If it's the latter, then I must say that I'm impressed at how you've been able to achieve it.

If the "oppression" is so damn obvious, why don't you provide links showing it?

Quote from zarlan
"So because some people send her death threats, over her anti-trans bigotry, that means that any and all opposition to her statements are the same as sending her death threats?"

And, if the situation was reversed, you'd be treating it as if it was a war crime.

Quote from zarlan
Ah, so you condemn people who are anti-fascist?

Can you actually define what "Fascism" is? My understanding is that it's the most extreme form of Socialism, where even the populace of a country is "owned" by the government; as opposed to Marxism and Nazism, where the populace still retain some level of autonomy, and it's only possessions that are deemed "public goods".

Quote from zarlan
…and you do know, that it is a well established fact, that the vast majority of terrorism in the US and in Europe, is perpetrated not by islamists, ANTIFA, the left wing, BLM, or any other such group that you or Fox News would like to portray as the greatest threats

Are you talking about the government? And, how they keep making extremist honeypots for no other reason than to justify their ludicrous budget?

Quote from zarlan
It isn't bullshit, and if I asked you to explain what it is, you wouldn't be able to answer.

"Critical Race Theory" is the concept that all of society is created with a racial bias in mind, that it infects all levels from the simple words one writes on a page to the highest forms of government. The theory is that there's nothing wrong with CRT as long as a society remains entirely homogeneous. However, the moment an "outsider" is introduced into the picture, then an issue arises because that "outsider" doesn't belong in that society. And, there are two ways of solving this issue. The first is to become entirely isolationist. The second is to have said society destroy any and all works established and created prior to this "outsider" entering into society, and must be re-established, with the "outsider's" involvement, so that society can more easily adjust to the "outsider" now living there.

Long story short, it's the racist ideal that blacks cannot live in white societies or that whites cannot live in black societies without said society having to be rebuilt from scratch.

Quote from zarlan
No other country (a few of the most cult-y fascistic ones aside), has anything that even remotely resembles that.



Quote from zarlan
No, but people have been sued for refusing to bake cakes for gay people, despite being a cake shop, open for the public …and therefore having to bake cakes for everyone, including gays.
...
The problem with that being…?

So, you're saying that people should only be denied services depending on the situation?

Quote from zarlan
Just because they didn't express it on air, doesn't mean that the listeners don't know them.

"He committed a crime in his mind, therefore we should punish him."

Quote from zarlan
…and why would Disney want to be represented by, and be seen to promote, someone who is hated by the public, and therefore gives them huge bad PR, and would result in massive economic losses?

I don't know why they haven't fired Kathleen Kennedy yet. That's the million dollar question.

Quote from zarlan
A bit of inheritance is fine, but after a certain amount there should be a significant inheritance tax. The tax rate should (much as income tax) increase, exponentially, the higher the taxed amount is …but be a lot higher than income tax.
The same needs to apply to gifts. (most gifts, given/recieved by normal people, would be of too low a value to be taxed, of course)

Why? Why are you punishing people who manage to succeed in society? Why are you punishing people who want their children to live better lives than they did?

Quote from zarlan
Not just crap (if any) benefits, but also as low a wage as he can get away with, torturous and inhumane working condition etc etc

Then, don't work at Amazon. Employees are the ones holding all the cards in that scenario. If you don't like how your boss is treating you, then leave for another job.

Quote from zarlan
…all the while he pays practically no tax.

Those are tax laws anyone and EVERYONE can benefit from and use. One of the reasons why I'm part of a resale franchise is so that I can take advantage of those laws, and have been getting a couple hundred back from the IRS every year as a result. You can too.

Quote from zarlan
…not to mention the money that Amazon and other of his companies, have recieved directly from the government.

Then, why don't you lobby to STOP giving him money. That would solve more problems than demanding that the government solve the problem the government created.

Quote from zarlan
Big companies get money, resources, laws changed in their favour, the ability to pay as much/little in tax as they want, getting practially no punishments for breaking the law… (meaning that they are, effectively, above the law)

If things are so helpless, why don't you fellate a shotgun and get it over with?

Quote from zarlan
You seriously just ignored what I pointed out about China, and just repeat your ignorant nonsense?

Hong Kong is NOT China.

Quote from zarlan
Berserk NEVER promotes or condones those things.

Can you give us examples of stories that do promote "rape, slavery, torture, misogyny, discrimination, zealous nationalism, historical revisionism… etc etc"?

Quote from zarlan
all narratives has politics

User Posted Image

Quote from zarlan
Mm, because people who are different, just existing and wanting to be treated like human beings, is them pushing it down your throught…

I don't know, if they want to be treated like everyone else, why don't they ACT like everyone else?

Quote from zarlan
Quote
Does that mean their bias has to be plastered across the art form they have control over?

Yes.

Thanks for explaining that you one of the most superficial motherfuckers on the internet.

thread

» Peep on November 4th, 2021, 12:30pm

I already told you what I was pertaining to. Yawn.

:3. Sure, buddy, you're not aggressive at all, if you want to believe that. You do seem to embrace the whole mental perception = reality.
I looked at your post history the other day briefly and you accused transdude of being a troll, but he does not troll at all from my PoV and he is perfectly willing to cite sources for his claims.

Quote
You're clearly fine with spending 30+ minutes on writing forum posts, though.

Oh, it is an attention span issue now is it? I had wondered how long before you put that card into play. You can't summarize your points so instead you drop me a video thinking he will argue for you? Am I supposed to be impressed?
Yes, I totally take 30 minutes to type a response haha. Dude, nobody in my class typed at such a snail pace. I type at over 100 words per minute when I want to, then it is just a quick spell check for typos. I feel bad for you if you are investing 30 mins per response, but then you feel 1hr+ video on nonsense is a good investment so I guess you are NEET.

Transgender are not oppressed because you just freely admitted earlier that they can not change their sex, they just make believe they are whatever sex they want to be at any given point. "Mental gender", thanks, you have agreed transgender do not exist unless somebody voluntarily chooses to be one. Forming a category that anybody cna join at any time with no prerequisites is funny, but then insisting that the perfectly voluntary group is oppressed and equating it to the same that was experienced by black peeps, Jews/women and everybody else who did not get a choice is just stupid.

Quote
None of that is relevant, in any way. It is nothing more than an ad hominem fallacy.

Good to know, a trans activist does not care if a 5, 4 woman was domestically abused, rose above it to make children (and adults) around happy, now has to face death threats. Okay, I think I have a pretty good view of your personality and priorities now.
Women being assaulted does not matter, only trans do, I understand.

Quote
you chose to ignore

I already told you I never watched Dave Chapelle, I only know about it because of Stevie Knight on YT. Why would I trust your account of DC when you label everybody a bigot? If DC was not black you'd be telling me he was burning crosses on lawns to demonize him more.

Quote
No person can change their gender identity, their mental gender, however.

See, you just admitted it is voluntary. That's like a transformation in any sentai or shounen show.

Quote
Yeah, the slaves should have just accepted their enslavement, with a duck water off back attitude…
As should the Jews have accepted their circumstances, in Nazi Germany…"

What is your problem with Jews? You think they had the choice of being Jew? Unlike the supposed oppressed category you endorse, it is not a "mental ethnic" thing. So attention span argument of calling me an idiot, now the comparison to Hitler/Nazi Germany. Sure are a lot of tropes being used.

So you support domestic terrorism, rioting, and looting? In some ways it's a good thing America has the Patriot Act.
Quote
…but by right wing extremists! (and that's excluding islamist, even though they are all right wing extremists)

Sure, Paris police officers check your bags twice when entering a mall, cinema etc because.. oh right, not Islamic extremists. It was all "right wing bigots", right? Good to know.

I don't watch Fox news. First time I heard of CRT was on America Uncovered, I am not going to bother linking you, you can find it yourself since you like videos so much.
CRT is not about teaching kids about racism, it is about making kids racist. Why segregate them based on skin colour, why talk about supposed colour privileges? Just propaganda. Every person and country on the planet is racist to some extent, we don't need a dedicated thing encouraging it.

Quote
No, but people have been sued for refusing to bake cakes for gay people, despite being a cake shop, open for the public …and therefore having to bake cakes for everyone, including gays.

Wait, so you are all for trans (which you admitted don't exist) rights, but not religious freedoms or personal choices when to provide a service? Maybe that's why you dislike Jews so much, because they are religious. I don't mind if you are a militant atheist :3.

Quote
If they fired the guy who just takes care of the equipment, for comments he made outside of his job, that would be unacceptable, but…

Die Gedanken sind frei/My thoughts are free.
I don't want to live in a country where you have any power.

Quote
That isn't why she was fired, and you know it!
…and why would Disney want to be represented by, and be seen to promote, someone who is hated by the public, and therefore gives them huge bad PR, and would result in massive economic losses?

She was harassed by people to put her pronouns up, and because she refused to align herself with your cause then she was bullied. I imagine some "activists" also sent Disney death threats too since that seems to be their go to thing when they get angry about something.
They drummed up a storm of anger to get somebody fired because they did not like them. More censorship, more cancel culture, the one you refuse to admit exists, but now you say you agree that she got fired because a bunch of riled up nerfherders.

Quote
What have your kids done, to earn what you leave them?
Nothing. Nothing whatsoever.
Hahaha. seriously man, what did they do to earn it? You don't have children at all, do you? Maybe your "mental gender" is not compatible for having children, but you would seriously ask that? It is a parent's responsibility to provide a better future for their kids. Maybe your family just think they can be poor and have unlimited kids and wait for the state to pick up the problem, but I would rather make sure mine have a decent standard of living. What did you do to earn anything? You are so anti-capitalist yet I bet you are a consumer.
Quote
Despite benefiting from tax payer funded roads, schools (his employees need to have some level of education), healthcare (his employees need to be healthy) etc etc

So now you are claiming that these things exist in an isolation bubble. If Amazon did not exist they'd be no roads or schools? You live in a wonderous world, my friend You know there are things such as unions, people can dictate their terms, and if they don't feel satisfied, they can move on.

Quote
You do realise that Google was funded by plenty of tax payer money, right?

Is that why they had to run themselves into debt with their credit cards? Interesting. General Motors gets bailed out etc, you know why? Cause the currency needs to be backed up by goods nd services and people need to have jobs or there will be chaos like your friends in Chicago had.
Quote
If you are born to poor parents, you'll almost certainly stay poor.

Maybe that has something to do with your mentality of "why should I leave money for my children".

Who is this one man you speak of, Xi? Xi owns everything in China? :3

Quote
Berserk NEVER promotes or condones those things.

So give us an example of something that has PROMOTED it. Not just arbitrarily come up with stuff.

Quote
I never addressed variant covers, or even bothered to find out what that is. (I'm guessing it's just literal, as in just different covers, on the same issue of the same comic?)

Yes.

Quote
WTF are you talking about?
I never mentioned physical strength, nor do I think you've got to be particularly strong.

Why would I care if they have partners then either? It is called having an active lifestyle and getting your kid outside so they are physically fit and socialize.

Quote
…but I'm pretty sure that we have very differing views on what is or isn't coddling, and how much is too much.

I don't know what your views are, you don't have kids from what I gathered, I doubt you'd be a good parent though from your question of "what did they do to earn it".

Quote
I doubt that.

Would it help if I went into my user settings and changed my "mental gender"?

Quote
Mm, because people who are different, just existing and wanting to be treated like human beings, is them pushing it down your throught…
Oh, and who forced you to read those books/comics, exactly?

It is as transdude said, they don't want equal rights, they want more rights, and you yourself proved that when you said that jokes about this new category are offlimits.
Forced? I don't live in Zarlan-land where everybody is forced to do what he says because he says so. As I said I am open to trying stuff, currently in my user settings btw.

Quote
I haven't read it, but…
1. Does it slutshame Starfire? …or the MEN who draw/write her, and decide how she looks and behaves, and what she says?

Self insert by the author claims she is just wearing skimpy clothes to attract guys or w/e
Quote
2. There are people on the left who are prudish, and people who are a bit too loose about sexual matters. The left isn't a monolith.

Yes, as evidenced by you and your apathy to JK Rowling, some people on the "left" hate women and want to replace them with men and claim those are the new women. I however am going to replace all my low denomination currency with "high" denomination currency and demand the bank respect it.

Quote
Bigot Bigot Bigotry Bigot Bigot Bigotry bigot bilbo baggins biggot of bagend Bigot! Hairy toes bigot

I'd tell you a figure of speech about attracting more flies with honey etc and how you persuade people better by not insulting them, but I am pretty sure your tribe would rather cancel or kill me. If only I had a twitter account etc to receive some death threats with.
That's why you are angry I don't have twitter, fb etc, your comrades can not do anything, sesibo.

thread

» zarlan on November 5th, 2021, 6:53am

Quote from Peep
I already told you what I was pertaining to. Yawn.

What are you refering to, here?
Quote
you accused transdude of being a troll

That is a well established fact. (you may note that I have not responded to, or indeed read, any of his comments here)
Quote
Oh, it is an attention span issue now is it?

It was never not an attention span issue.
Quote
You can't summarize your points…

Complex and/or nuanced issues, require more words than a haiku.
Deal with it.
Quote
Yes, I totally take 30 minutes to type a response haha. Dude, nobody in my class typed at such a snail pace.

Ah yes, I forget that you don't actually bother to spend any time with understanding what you read, or thinking through anything you write, so naturally you don't take a lot of time, to write a long reply to a long text…
Quote
Transgender are not oppressed because you just freely admitted earlier that they can not change their sex

No I never did that. I said the exact opposite. As you know.
Quote
they just make believe they are whatever sex

You have demonstrated before, that you are aware of the distincition between sex ang gender, to here you are clearly, knowingly, and intentionally, lying.
Quote
they want to be at any given point.

You know full well, that transgender people don't go around constantly change what they identify as, so that is, again, a lie.
Quote
"Mental gender", thanks, you have agreed transgender do not exist unless somebody voluntarily chooses to be one.

No.
Ones "mental gender" (more commonly "gender identity", but I wrote it like that to distinguish mental vs physical) is just as physical/biological as ones physical gender. It is a physical aspect of ones brain, that is permanent and unchangable.
The only reason to talk of it separately from "physical"/"body", even though it is physical and part of the body, is that one usually talks of the brain and the rest of the body, separately …as that is, in many cases, a practical and useful distinction. (even if the terms used, are a bit inaccurate …and, to ignorant fools, a bit misleading)
Quote
Forming a category that anybody cna join at any time with no prerequisites is funny

Trans is a category that only trans people can join, and it has clear prerequisites.
Quote
insisting that the perfectly voluntary group is oppressed

Yeah, because people always love to be part of an ostracized group…
…and how do you choose to be born a particular way?
Quote
Good to know, a trans…

None of what you said, in any way addressed what I said. You realised that you had no countre-argument, and just ran away from the argument with your tail between your legs, and instead try to distract from it, like a coward.
When are you going to show any kind of ability or willingness for actual honest debate?
Rather than this dishonest and cowardly nonsense?
Quote
I already told you I never watched Dave Chapelle

You are the one who made claims about Dave Chapelle. (hell, you are the one who first mentioned him!) Claims that you have not defended against contrary evidence or arguments, nor have you admited that you were, or even that you may be, wrong or mistaken.
…because you know you have no case, but you have to fragile an ego to admit when you're wrong.

…and if you're so ignorant about Chapelle, on what basis do you justify your strong claims about him?
Quote
Why would I trust your account of DC

Why do you trust some random youtuber's account of him?
Quote
when you label everybody a bigot?

Just because I labeled a couple few people you like as bigots, that means I label everyone a bigot?
…and I'm untrustworthy, because you don't like my conclusions?
You don't point to my argument, reasoning, or evidence, but instead that you don't like my conclusions? You wouldn't like me to be right, therefore I must be wrong?

So you don't follow the evidence where it leads, you chose where to go, and then chose what evidence to accept, that allows you to go there.
Quote
See, you just admitted it is voluntary.

"No person can change their gender identity" is a clear statement of saying that it isn't voluntary.
This is a clear lie.
Quote
Sure, Paris police officers check your bags twice when entering a mall, cinema etc because.. oh right, not Islamic extremists. It was all "right wing bigots", right? Good to know.

I note that you don't cite any terrorism statistics
…because they show that I'm correct.
Instead, you focus on things like what laws/regulations are done, or media coverage …which are irrelevant.
The media often disproportionally cover stuff, and political descisions are often bullshit based on bullshit.
The terrorism stats, however, are pure and simple fact.
Quote
I don't watch Fox news. First time I heard of CRT was on America Uncovered

Ah, so you listen to more niche rutinely dishonest far-right extremists. Not the more mainstream rutinely dishonest far-right extremists?

That is a difference without a distinction.
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it is about making kids racist.

No.
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Why segregate them based on skin colour

You guys do that. Not the ones you're railing against
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why talk about supposed colour privileges

Because they are facts, and they have a severe impact.
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we don't need a dedicated thing encouraging it.

We do need dedicated education about it, on how it is bad, and how to avoid it
…which is the exact thing that you are condemning.

None of which, has anything to do with CRT which, again, is a college/university level law subject.
Quote
but not religious freedoms or personal choices when to provide a service?

I am all for religious freedom, but not religious privileges!
You don't get to say that you're above the law, or that you can chose what laws to obey or not, based on your religion!
That would violate Freedom of Religon! (and violate the 1st Amendment)
Religions and believers must never be discriminated against …or in favour of.

If you have a bakery, where you bake cakes for the public, then you have to bake cakes for the public. If you can't do that, due to your religious convitction: Get a different job!
Quote
Maybe that's why you dislike Jews so much, because they are religious.

Aside from your dishonest claim that I dislike Jews…
You do realise that there are plenty of Jews who don't believe in Judaism, right? …or who are atheists?
Jews are an ethnic group. Not a religious one.
Quote
Die Gedanken sind frei/My thoughts are free.

I don't see why you felt the need to write that in two languages, but…
Those were not thoughts.
They were words.
…and they meant that the radio station condone, or at least accept, his opinions, if they continue to let him be their voice. Let him represent them.

What you are saying, in effect, is that people who have a platform/event, MUST invite people they strongly oppose. That they MUST actively pay, fund, support, promote, celebrate, people they strongly oppose, want nothing to do with, and find utterly disgusting.

You are arguing for Forced Speech, and against Free Speech.
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She was harassed by people to put her pronouns up

Repeating the lie that, that was the only thing she did, doesn't make it any more true.
Quote
Hahaha. seriously man, what did they do to earn it? You don't have children at all, do you?

Again, you realise that you have no arguments against my words, that you have no case, so you instead try to distract from it, by trying to attack me …and it's a pitiful attempt, at an attack.
Quote
It is a parent's responsibility to provide a better future for their kids.

It is a parent's responsibility to protect, care, teach (not indoctrinate), and guide (not decide for them, what they must be/do …beyond making sure they don't do anything too dangerous/immoral/idiotic) their kids, to ensure that they become proper independent adults.
After that, it's up to them to take care of themselves.
Naturally, it is good to still help and support them, beyond that, but…
They have to earn their own wealth and position. Not be given it, completely unearned.

If what they can manage to make for themselves, is far too bad, then either you've done a shit job as a parent, or you're in a disfunctional country.
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Maybe your family just think they can be poor and have unlimited kids and wait for the state to pick up the problem

Families in countries with strong welfare and social safety nets, especially among those who are better off, have fewer kids.
It's in disfunctional and chaotic countries, with extreme poverty, where you find that people have tons of kids.
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yet I bet you are a consumer.


Everyone is a consumer.
Regardless of how much they work and/or earn, or how rich/poor they are.
Otherwise you die.
Or are you claiming that you don't eat or drink?
Quote
So now you are claiming that these things exist in an isolation bubble.

What I said, was the exact opposite of that.
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If Amazon did not exist they'd be no roads or schools?


Are you insane?
I kinds said the opposite (well, not exactly, but…)
Quote
You know there are things such as unions

Where I live? Yes …though they're far from perfect, imnipotent, or completely sufficient.
In the US? HELL NO! There are a rare few, very weak, unions, with very little power (except police unions, who are corrupt, criminal, and far overpowered)
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and if they don't feel satisfied, they can move on.

No they can't.
Some can, but a very large proportion of the US population does not have that option.
Quote
Is that why they had to run themselves into debt with their credit cards?

Google run themselves into debt with their credit cards? WTF are you talking about?
Quote
General Motors gets bailed out etc, you know why? Cause the currency needs to be backed up by goods nd services

No.
That does not follow.
1. I thought you believed in the Free Market! If GM fails, they should be allowed to fail, according to the Free Market!
2. GM are not the one and only source of goods and services!
3. If they are so vitally important, that they are too important to fail, then the owners should be allowed to fail, and government should simply (temporarily) take the company, and find some responsible people to sell it to.
(and in the case of, e.g., the companies who were responsible for the 2008 financial crash, due to wildly illegal practices, should have all responsible people put in jail …in addition to the steps I mentioned above. Well, except that there is no valid reason, for allowing any banks to be in private hands, anyway. they should all be nationalized)
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like your friends in Chicago had.

Since when do I have any friends, in the US?
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Who is this one man you speak of, Xi? Xi owns everything in China? :3

Xi doesn't own everything in China.
He controls everything in China.
He rules over China.
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So give us an example of something that has PROMOTED it. Not just arbitrarily come up with stuff.

You think I made that claim, without having examples to back it up?
Textbook projection…

To cite a few examples, off the top of my head…
Kaifuku Jutsushi no Yarinaoshi and Tate no Yuusha are guilty of pretty much all of what I listed, aside from zealous nationalism, historical revisionism, and racism.
They're both seriously fucked up.

When it comes to zealous nationalism and historical revisionism, it's works that I haven't read or watched myself. (and why would I?)
Titles such as Manga Kenkanryu.
Also, the first Japanese feature-length animated film, "Momotarou: Umi no Shinpei" was, aside from generally being a very crap and incoherent movie, essentially wartime propaganda. (I watched it due to it's historical value …and almost fell asleep, in parts)

Oh, and I note that I forgot to include paedophilia!
Tate no Yuusha is massively guilty of that, and there are tons of other examples, but… You've already agreed that there are. (note that many isekai, have a person be reborn in the other world. In those cases, they tend to be 20-30 years older than they look, than their isekai-body, older than they have been in that world …and yet they tend to get into relationsships with children that are about the same age as their bodies. So, e.g., a seemingly 15 year old, who is actually a middle aged man, dating/fucking a 14 year old)

No need to remember, or look for, any more examples, of course.
All I need to show, is that examples exist.
Which I have.
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Why would I care if they have partners then either?

Because that actually does matter.
Well, if they have no interest in getting a partner, that's fine, but being utterly incapable of getting one, or (far worse) not being able to get a partner or even a friend of the opposite sex, due to not treating them as human being…
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It is called having an active lifestyle and getting your kid outside so they are physically fit and socialize.

You don't need to do any weight lifting, to have basic decent health.
…and it is completely irrelevant, to the issue of socializing.
You have still failed to show why you said "I'd be ashamed of my son if they were 16-18 and could not lift 20kg and was scared of any exercise", and how that makes any sense.
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you don't have kids from what I gathered

A baseless assumption.
One you have, quite nonsensically and irrationally, arrived at purely because we have differing views on inheritance.
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you yourself proved that when you said that jokes about this new category are offlimits.

I've already covered how trans jokes aren't off limits.
Again, you're just lying.
Quote
Forced? I don't live in Zarlan-land where everybody is forced to do what he says because he says so.

Then you admit that you were lying, when you said that it was being pushed down your throat?
Quote
Self insert by the author claims she is just wearing skimpy clothes to attract guys or w/e

1. How is that slutshaming? Are you saying that it is wrong, for women to wear skimpy clothing, with the intent to attract guys? Would that not make you the one who is slutshaming?
2. Again: Starfires choices, are not the free voluntary choices of a woman. They are choices of the MEN who write/draw her.
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Yes, as evidenced by you and your apathy to JK Rowling…

That paragraph is completely incoherent.
Quote
I'd tell you a figure of speech about attracting more flies with honey

…says the guy who is all vinegar? Who has repeatedly insulted and slandered me, lied about what I've said, and done several other offensive things?
Also, just because it's a saying, doesn't mean it's true.
Quote
That's why you are angry

I'm not angry.
I don't get emotional about the nonsense you're spouting. Aside from how I try to be calm and objective… I've long since grown numb to the kind of nonsense, that you're spouting.

…and again, you've ignored a bunch of things (I'll not provide a list again, unless you actually start to answer them. It's not like you can't check yourself. Once you've started, I can point out any you've missed), trying to distract from them and sweep them under the rug, because you know that, in an honest debate, you would be proven to be utterly wrong, irrational, and immoral.
That's why you constantly lie about my argument, and/or try to distract attention away from them.
The fact that you feel that you have to stoop so low, have to resort to such cowardly and dishonest tactics…
That proves that you already know, deep down, that you can't make valid arguments for your positions.
That you know, you have no case.

Now how about you get a dose of integrity and/or self-respect, and start being honest?
If not, if you just continue to be more and more dishonest (you started out being at least partially honest, but…), then I see no point in wasting any more time on you.

thread

» Transdude1996 on November 5th, 2021, 12:31pm

Quote from zarlan

A series where the protagonist was raped to the point of insanity by anyone and everyone, gets sent back to a point in time before all of this, and plays out his revenge fantasy? That's your prime example, the male equivalent of I Spit On Your Grave in fantasy land?

Quote from zarlan

HOLY SHIT, you idiots are still ass-mad that a series depicted a woman giving a false rape allegation?

Quote from zarlan
Titles such as Manga Kenkanryu.

Had to look this up, , that's essentially a period piece made in response to , which , and .

Quote from zarlan
Also, the first Japanese feature-length animated film, "Momotarou: Umi no Shinpei" was, aside from generally being a very crap and incoherent movie, essentially wartime propaganda. (I watched it due to it's historical value …and almost fell asleep, in parts)

What a surprise that a film made during a war was promoting the nation that it was made in. Do you also have issue with all those and shorts that are racist and discriminatory against Germany and Japan?

Quote from zarlan
Oh, and I note that I forgot to include paedophilia!
Tate no Yuusha is massively guilty of that, and there are tons of other examples, but… You've already agreed that there are. (note that many isekai, have a person be reborn in the other world. In those cases, they tend to be 20-30 years older than they look, than their isekai-body, older than they have been in that world …and yet they tend to get into relationsships with children that are about the same age as their bodies. So, e.g., a seemingly 15 year old, who is actually a middle aged man, dating/fucking a 14 year old)

And, what about series like Unbalance Unbalance, that's about middle-aged woman chasing after one of her students. OH, WAIT, THAT SERIES IS KOREAN! Let me refer to something of Japanese origin.

Does that mean you're going to go after Don't Meddle With My Daughter!, where the final arc is about how the mother (Who's in her 40's) falls in move with a teenage boy, who is sent back in time to when she was in her teens, proceed to fuck and have a kid, only to then have him sent back to the present where he's only a couple years older?

Quote from zarlan
When looking at what right wing means, what defines it as right wing, it is clear that authoritarianism is right wing

Just decided to pull up the most "non-biased" definitions that I could, and that seems to be from the 1999 World Book encyclopedia (As the 1998 Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia, nor the 2003 Encyclopedia Britannica, didn't have "right wing" anywhere):
Quote from 1999 World Book: Family Reference Suite
Right wing refers to a conservative, traditional group or political party. In some legislative bodies, the conservatives sit to the right of the speaker. Radical and liberal groups form the left wing, with middle-of-the-road groups making up the center. This custom originated with the French National Assembly of 1789. In that assembly, nobles took the honored seats to the king's right. See also CONSERVATISM.

...

Conservatism is an attitude or philosophy that places great emphasis on tradition. Conservatives want to conserve (save) traditional institutions, values, and ideas, and they rely on them as a guide to wisdom and goodness. Therefore, they seek progress in line with proven values of the past. But the word conservatism is confusing because its meaning varies with time, place, and circumstance.


Quote from zarlan
They merely talk about the "racial"/ethnic/social categories that exist.
They don't create them, or sort people into them.
The categories exist, and people fall into those categories, in accordance with the definitions of those categories.
(the different "races" are, of course, not different races. They are inconsistent social constructs. There is just the one human race …but they do exist as social constructs, and we can't get away from that)

How can people be taught about a "social construct" that doesn't exist outside of society and the simple way to abolish said "social construct" is to just ignore it's existence?

Quote from Peep
I never knew the UK had so many delusional people, maybe cause I've not lived there in awhile.

Why do you think the internet has endless jokes about ?

Quote from Peep
I found this channel earlier, and they have some apt and comical videos.
Basically what cancel culture supporters want to do:
The only achievable thing by cancel culture is to destroy people's lives and make them hate others for causing it.

The type of people they are:

That was hilarious.

Quote from Tiber727
For a comparison, see Gamergate. Was it a movement for ethics in game journalism distorted by bad actors, or a harassment campaign with an innocuous cover? Depends if you like them or not.

These days, it just a water-cooler thread on 8Moe; with the most recent discussion surrounding people being horny for She-Venom and Vivian, the great soundtrack to SMTV and GotG, and a Times of Malta article talking about China making human-ape hybrids.

thread

» Tiber727 on November 4th, 2021, 8:01pm

Quote
Antifa?

Ah, so you condemn people who are anti-fascist?
So do you promote tolerance/accceptance of fascism, or pro-fascism?
…and you do realise that antifa protestors are no more violent or problematic, than any other protestors? That most violence that has occured, during antifa protests, has either been caused by counter-protestors or police?


I'm going to create an organization called Protect Our Environment. What is our proposed policy? We should club baby seals. Why are you offended? Our organization is called Protect Our Environment! Do you hate the environment?

Whether Antifa is good or bad, this is an incredibly vapid argument.

Quote
People have had their businesses targeted for not wanting to bake cakes

No, but people have been sued for refusing to bake cakes for gay people, despite being a cake shop, open for the public …and therefore having to bake cakes for everyone, including gays.


There's more to it than that. They refused to make a cake for a gay wedding, but offered to provide other services. A bit of a tortured analogy, but it's like the difference between refusing to make a product for a white person and refusing to make a product you know will be used at a white supremacist rally. The Supreme Court sided with the bake shop.

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China is not a socialist country, but it is a communist one.

I have already pointed out how it is neither.
It is a far-right wing fascistic state.
Pretty much a dictatorship.
One man owning everything, isn't communism.


Authoritarianism is not a left or right philosophy, it's an authoritarian philosophy. You can be a far-left authoritarian or a far-right authoritarian.

Quote
It isn't bullshit, and if I asked you to explain what it is, you wouldn't be able to answer.
You do realise that NO pupil/student learns about CRT, in K-12 education in the US, or anywhere else?
It's a college/university level, judicial subject, which looks into how laws can have racist outcomes, regardless of whether or not they have any racist intent. ...

Want to talk about indoctrination of kids?
How about the fact that they are all required to say the Pledge of Allegience, every school day? Like in a cult.
No other country (a few of the most cult-y fascistic ones aside), has anything that even remotely resembles that.
Or even a Pledge of Allegience, at all.


CRT is a framework for analyzing history and government policy explicitly from the lens of impact on minorities. It borrows from Marxism in that it views these policies as a form of power dynamics between various classes. However, CRT now has a second definition (language evolves and all that) of education that focuses on sorting people into racial and social categories, and emphasizing discussions of privilege and generalized traits of groups of people. It's not "technically" CRT but shares many of the same axioms used in the creation of CRT. Yes, the right exaggerates it because it sells well, but a lot of it is incredibly stupid and insulting yet the left would rather play pedantic word games to dismiss the argument and call the opposition stupid instead of arguing whether the core of the argument is correct or not.

thread

» zarlan on November 5th, 2021, 7:19am

Quote from Tiber727
I'm going to create an organization called…

Antifa is anti-fascism.
Nothing more, nothing less.
You're hypothetical organization, however, is a specific organization with specific members, ideals, policies, and actions.
That is completely different.
…and I did also point out, how Antifa protestors are never particularly violent, compared to any other protestors (all large protests, tend to have some bad actors, and where there are counter protestors, things can get a bit out of hand. Regardless of what causes and/or groups are involved. Far right protestors, however, do tend to be disproportionately violent. Significantly so)
Quote
They refused to make a cake for a gay wedding, but offered to provide other services

They make cakes, including wedding cakes, for the public.
They refused to make a gay wedding cake.
Hence refusing to do they jobs!
Anything else is irrelevant.
Quote
it's like the difference between refusing to make a product for a white person and refusing to make a product you know will be used at a white supremacist rally.

…or refusing to bake a cake for Hitler's birthday (and yes, neo-nazis do celebrate it), or an anti-gay cake.
All of which shouldn't be allowed.
If you offer to make custom cakes for the public, then you must offer all of the above mentioned cakes.
Period!
You don't have to like what they request, or what they intend to do with it, but that is completely irrelevant.

I've heard someone argue that it means that the baker is forced to voice an opinion that he/she doesn't hold …but that is utter bullshit. When you're paid to bake a cake, the message is that of the customer. The customer is voicing an opinion. Not the baker.
When I print a text of mine on a printer, isn't opinions voiced by the printer, or the company that made it. It's my opinion, and mine alone.
Quote
Authoritarianism is not a left or right philosophy

Yes it is. It is inherently right-wing.
When looking at what right wing means, what defines it as right wing, it is clear that authoritarianism is right wing

…and you cannot provide a single example, of a left-wing authoritarian.
It cannot be done.
Do keep in mind, that I've already pointed out, how "communist" regimes aren't communist. If you want to cite a communist as an example, you'll need to address that, and point out how what I said is wrong. You need to show, communist or not, that the proposed left wing authoritarian, is left wing.
Quote
First of all, you cannot be forced to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools.

Whilst that is, technically according to US law, true…
1. US law isn't always obeyed (even court rulings, often go completely against what the law states. A law that only exists on paper, but isn't followed, isn't worth the paper it's written on), and it's not like most kids would know that they can refuse.
2. They are STRONGLY pressured into it, and would face severe (though not necessarily legal) consequences if they don't.
3. Just the fact that they are "supposed to" (or even just encouraged) do it, is seriously fucked up, and is something that only occurs in cults and some of the most cult-y fascist regimes. (like North Korea)
Quote
However, CRT now has a second definition

Dishonest right-wing propagandists, have started to brainwash people into thinking it has a different meaning.
Quote
language evolves and all that

The false meaning of CRT, has not even come close to being an established meaning.
Besides which: Most people protesting against CRT, when asked what it is, are unable to answer or admit that they don't know what it is.
You cannot have a second definition, that has no definition
Quote
education that focuses on sorting people into racial and social categories, and emphasizing discussions of privilege and generalized traits of groups of people.

No education sorts people into "racial" or social categories.
They merely talk about the "racial"/ethnic/social categories that exist.
They don't create them, or sort people into them.
The categories exist, and people fall into those categories, in accordance with the definitions of those categories.
(the different "races" are, of course, not different races. They are inconsistent social constructs. There is just the one human race …but they do exist as social constructs, and we can't get away from that)

As for "generealized traits", I have no idea what you're talking about.
If you mean mentioning the stereotypes that exist, and how they are wrong, and how you can't judge a person by their "race"…
Yeah, that happens.
If you mean that they teach that the different groups do have those traits…
That might occur in some occasional schools (it is the US, after all), but that wouldn't be what they wrongly call "CRT", but the exact opposite. It would be further proof, that what they are calling "CRT", is sorely needed.
Quote
but a lot of it is incredibly stupid and insulting

Such as…?
Quote
yet the left would rather play pedantic word games to dismiss the argument and call the opposition stupid instead of arguing whether the core of the argument is correct or not.

No.
That absolutely does not happen.
To be more accurate, there may be some individual instances of that happening, but the overall response from the left, and any and all instances I've seen in mass media, is where the left points out that CRT isn't taught in K-12 AND how what they are claiming to be CRT, isn't what the right claims.
That it's basically just teaching actual history (rather than whitewashed revisionist history. I.e. propaganda), and saying that racism exists, and that it's bad to be racist.

thread

» Tiber727 on November 5th, 2021, 10:07am

Quote from zarlan
Antifa is anti-fascism.
Nothing more, nothing less.
You're hypothetical organization, however, is a specific organization with specific members, ideals, policies, and actions.
That is completely different.
…and I did also point out, how Antifa protestors are never particularly violent, compared ...


Antifa is a political movement with no organization. If a big enough group call themselves Antifa, they are Antifa. There's no membership logs to say otherwise. So if said group goes and protests that we're not clubbing baby seals, it becomes either "I like Antifa and No True Antifa would club baby seals so it must be a false flag" or "I hate Antifa so this is what Antifa really is like." For a comparison, see Gamergate. Was it a movement for ethics in game journalism distorted by bad actors, or a harassment campaign with an innocuous cover? Depends if you like them or not.

Similarly, I've seen plenty of videos of Antifa getting violent. But this No True Scotsman argument and unreliable narrators make it hard to get an accurate sense of the scale.

Quote
If you offer to make custom cakes for the public, then you must offer all of the above mentioned cakes.
Period!


That's not how it actually works. If you'd like it to work that way that's fine since you seem to be consistent about it. Most would come up with a way to say that bakers should have to make a cake for a gay wedding but reject the Hitler cake, so kudos to you.

Quote
Yes it is. It is inherently right-wing.
When looking at what right wing means, what defines it as right wing, it is clear that authoritarianism is right wing

…and you cannot provide a single example, of a left-wing authoritarian.
It cannot be done.


It cannot be done because you have tautologically defined authoritarianism as right wing. That definition is false, but without being able to convince you otherwise it would be impossible to provide a counterexample because of the way you set it up. Even a Marxist uprising which is inherently left wing would suddenly become right wing because Marxism requires a powerful and controlling government and you've defined that as inherently right-wing.

Quote
First of all, you cannot be forced to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools.

Whilst that is, technically according to US law, true…
1. US law isn't always obeyed (even court rulings, often go completely against what the law states. A law that only exists on paper, but isn't followed, isn't worth the paper it's written on), and it's not like most kids would know that they can refuse.
2. They are STRONGLY pressured into it, and would face severe (though not necessarily legal) consequences if they don't.
3. Just the fact that they are "supposed to" (or even just encouraged) do it, is seriously fucked up, and is something that only occurs in cults and some of the most cult-y fascist regimes. (like North Korea)


Citation needed on people breaking the law or inflicting punishment. It's stupid, but not a big deal.

Quote
The false meaning of CRT, has not even come close to being an established meaning.
Besides which: Most people protesting against CRT, when asked what it is, are unable to answer or admit that they don't know what it is.
You cannot have a second definition, that has no definition


Call it CRT, social justice, anti-racism, wokism, progressivism, the far left, etc. I don't care. I didn't choose CRT as a name, but there is a cultural trend promoting very unhealthy ideas that is popular among colleges and making its way to K-12 teachers. There are numerous calls to implement anti-racism is K-12 education.

Quote
education that focuses on sorting people into racial and social categories, and emphasizing discussions of privilege and generalized traits of groups of people.

No education sorts people into "racial" or social categories.
They merely talk about the "racial"/ethnic/social categories that exist.
They don't create them, or sort people into them.
The categories exist, and people fall into those categories, in accordance with the definitions of those categories.
(the different "races" are, of course, not different races. They are inconsistent social constructs. There is just the one human race …but they do exist as social constructs, and we can't get away from that)


Education didn't invent social categories, but one can strongly or weakly self-identify with those categories and treat others as individuals or as members of that social class. For instance, do you feel self-conscious making race-based jokes to a friend of that ethnicity when you are reasonably confident both you and he wouldn't find it offensive? You may never be able to 100% get away from race, but you can emphasize it of de-emphasize it, for instance with the discussion of "whiteness." I personally believe that the current focus on "diversity" implicitly relies on the argument that being a member of a certain group makes you innately different from another person, which is the same argument used to justify racism.

And by stupid ideas and generalized traits, I mean

Quote
To be more accurate, there may be some individual instances of that happening, but the overall response from the left, and any and all instances I've seen in mass media, is where the left points out that CRT isn't taught in K-12 AND how what they are claiming to be CRT, isn't what the right claims.
That it's basically just teaching actual history (rather than whitewashed revisionist history. I.e. propaganda), and saying that racism exists, and that it's bad to be racist.


"Actual history" doesn't exist. You will always have to choose what to tell and what to leave out, and how to portray it. Historians have been arguing with each other since the invention of the academic field of history. Was America founded on slavery, or was it an uneasy compromise between the North who wanted to get rid of it and the South who depended on it? Was Robert E. Lee a traitor to his country, or a man who disagreed with slavery but nevertheless felt compelled to defend his homeland? Yet I notice a frequent trend to switch from, "CRT has a very specific definition" to "we're just teaching history" is very telling. It's such a jarring transition from "The details are very important" to "Here's a very slanted and simplistic summation of a massive topic."

thread

» zarlan on November 8th, 2021, 8:41am

Quote from Tiber727
Antifa is a political movement with no organization.

No it's opposition to fascism …and anyone who doesn't, is thereby okay with (if not straight up in favour of) fascism
…but even if you say that it's a political movement with no organization, that still makes your argument about Antifa, completely incoherent.
Quote
it becomes either "I like Antifa and No True Antifa would club baby seals so it must be a false flag" or "I hate Antifa so this is what Antifa really is like."

No.
The people who are accused of going into antifa protests, to cause/incite violence, are people who clearly are against antifa protests, and for whom there is evidence, that they only went to the protests to cause violence, with the purpose of discrediting antifa.
…and don't forget the violence that is purely self defence, against counter protestors who get violent …or, indeed, police.
Also, all large protests tend to attract people who are more concerned with being able to commit violence and/or vandalism, under the cover of a protest and with the protection of the chaos and uncertainty that it can provide.

That isn't to say that no antifa protestors get violent.
As I've already said:
There are some of the genuine protestors do commit violence and/or vandalism
…but, again, that is true of all large protests.
Certainly not more true of antifa protests, than any others.
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For a comparison, see Gamergate. Was it a movement for ethics in game journalism distorted by bad actors, or a harassment campaign with an innocuous cover? Depends if you like them or not.

No.
What it depends on, is the facts.
Gamergate was misogynist trolls, harassing people. There were some claims about it being about bad journalism, but all of those claims about bad journalism have been debunked, so… Those claims are clearly no more than excuses for trolling and harassing anyone who goes against the notion that video/computer games must all be about violence, and that all female characters in them, must be ludicrously over-sexualized. (I like violent games, sure, but what's wrong with variety? …and anyone who feels the need to be sexually stimulated, during every waking second, clearly has some serious issues)
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Similarly, I've seen plenty of videos of Antifa getting violent.

…but no facts or evidence, that shows antifa protests to be notably more violent, than any other large demonstration.
All large protests tend to involve some violence. (even aside from that started by counter-protestors or police, or [less commonly, but not entirely rarely] by people who infiltrate it, to make them look bad)
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That's not how it actually works.

It's exacltly how it works.
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Most would come up with a way to say that bakers should have to make a cake for a gay wedding but reject the Hitler cake, so kudos to you.

Those people who would say that, are despicable hypocrites.
Granted, if the cake says "kill all Jews", you could decline it, on the grounds that such a statement is incitement to murder, but aside from that…
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It cannot be done because you have tautologically defined authoritarianism as right wing.

At no point, and in no way, have I done so.
I have merely pointed out the fact, that if you look at the definition and fundamental meaning of right wing, it will show that authoritarianism is clearly and inherently right wing.
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That definition is false

My comment contained no definition.
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but without being able to convince you otherwise

You mean "without even bothering to make the slightest attempt to convince you otherwise"?
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it would be impossible to provide a counterexample because of the way you set it up.

No.
It is impossible, because there are none.
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Even a Marxist uprising which is inherently left wing would suddenly become right wing because Marxism requires a powerful and controlling government and you've defined that as inherently right-wing.

At no point, have I defined a powerful and controlling government, as right-wing.
If you have a powerful and controlling government, which is properly democratic, and hence carry out the will of the people…
That isn't inherently right-wing, at all. (I dunno that I'd say it's inherently anti-right, either)
A powerful and controlling government, controlled by a dictator or unaccountable elites/oligarchs, however…
That is right-wing.
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Citation needed on people breaking the law or inflicting punishment.

Aside from how you are ignoring the chilling effect, of how many don't speak up out of fear, non-punishment forms of negative consequences from not reciting the pledge (such as being shunned/ostracized), the fact that you still have to endure the pledge-reciting (whether you participate or not), and other issues…


(the mere fact that this got massive media attention, should say a lot about how you'll be treated, if you refuse to say the pledge)



Outside of schools:


Oh, and while I'm citing links about the Pledge of Allegiance:

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It's not even like we're particularly patriotic anyway.

LMAO!
That is the single most absurd thing you have said!
The US is infamous for being about as ludicrously zealously nationalistic, as you could possibly be.
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I didn't choose CRT as a name

You chose to use it, even though you know full well, that the term (used in that way) is a dishonest lie.
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but there is a cultural trend promoting very unhealthy ideas

Teaching actual history, without sugercoating it or denying the bad things that the US has done, is unhealthy? Saying that racism is bad, is unhealthy?

Well, that says a LOT about you.
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and treat others as individuals or as members of that social class.

…and the, so-called, "CRT" that people are complaining about, is all about treating others as individuals, rather than as a member of a certain race.
(but being aware of the issues that they face, due to being a member of the race/ethnicity/whatever that they are. Being blind to those, not taking those into account and wilfully not caring to show any sensitivity towards them… that is racist. Being "colour-blind", is not an ideal)
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For instance, do you feel self-conscious making race-based jokes to a friend of that ethnicity when you are reasonably confident both you and he wouldn't find it offensive?

Anyone who would be, is a fool
…but how is this relevant to the topic at hand?
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You may never be able to 100% get away from race, but you can emphasize it of de-emphasize it

True, but WTF does that have to do with this topic?
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for instance with the discussion of "whiteness."


WTF are you talking about?
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I personally believe that the current focus on "diversity" implicitly relies on the argument that being a member of a certain group makes you innately different from another person, which is the same argument used to justify racism.

You "personally believe" that …based on absolutely NOTHING.
Because it would be nice and convenient for you, to be persecuted.
I don't get your victim mentality.
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And by stupid ideas and generalized traits, I mean ideas like how rationality and being on time are traits associated with "whiteness."

You mean the stuff that the so-called "CRT", DEBUNKS?
How is that stuff, that "is being taught"?
Note how what is written in the text you linked to, is mentioned as being false, and racist, assumptions. Not facts.
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"Actual history" doesn't exist.

Of course it does.
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You will always have to choose what to tell and what to leave out, and how to portray it.

Your point being…?
Proper history education, involves giving a proper overview, telling the important bits, and not leaving out anything important. Giving a proper impression of the groups, people, societies, cultures, and institutions, that are mentioned.
Leaving out atrocities, would give a deeply flawed and misleading impression.
One should be extra vigilant against any attempt or temptation to skewing things, especially in favour of oneself or ones country, or towards the target audience or their country.

No one is completely free of bias, sure …but education, and science (and remember: history is a field of science) must always aim to be as free from bias as one can manage to be. (with everyone involved being as aware of their own biases as possible, and trying to avoid them, as well as having various methods, checks and regulations, that aims to avoid, spot, correct, and control for biases)

Of course all of this is only in terms of history education, where one must summarize.
Hence not relevant to your claim that "Actual history" doesn't exist …and even if we cannot 100% know or express "actual history", that wouldn't make it non-existent. Well, one may not be able to get 100% reliable and unbiased history (but being unattainable, is NOT the same as not existing!), but…
That is an unreasonable demand/requirement/definition, which renders the term utterly useless.

History that is as factual, objective, unbiased, and unskewed as you can make it, is valuable and most certainly legitimate!
It is, furthermore, COMPLETELY different to "history" (propaganda) that is intentionally made (manufactured) to make some look better. Which intentionally hides some parts, overemphasises other, and mentions myths and falsehoods, as if they were fact.
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Was America founded on slavery

Not exactly.
You had slavery, right from the start, but I don't think it was quite so foundational, at the very start, in the North American continent.
It soon became so, however. Well before the founding of the US, certainly …and it didn't end, with the end of the civil war, or the Emancipation Declaration. (Note that the latter only freed slaves in the South. Not the ones in the North. Also, they didn't control the South, at the time, so it didn't actually do anything, at the time)

Not to mention indentured servants, mostly white, who weren't exactly slaves, but…

It should also be noted that, whilst pretty much all slaves in America were black, slavery outside of the US was never exclusively black. Though I imagine that enslaving people outside of ones own nation/culture/ethnicity was always favoured, among slavers.
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or was it an uneasy compromise between the North who wanted to get rid of it and the South who depended on it?

The North had plenty of slaves, and didn't really have any plans to abolish it.
Also, the South never, ever, depended on it.
No place ever has.
The work that slaves were doing, could just as easily have been done by paid (and humanely treated) labour. There was nothing that was provided by slavery, that the South couldn't get without it.
The rich slave owners resented the idea of losing all that power, money, and income …as well as resenting the notion of being considered equal to black people.
The common folk…
They had to compete against farms that had the unfair advantage, of tons of free labour. The only reason they had, to defend slavery, was that the perceived need to see black people as inferior, so as to feel better about themselves. Needing to make themselves feel better, by putting others down (and hence "prove" that they are better) …instead of trying to actually improve themselves, or their condition.

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
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Was Robert E. Lee a traitor to his country

Given that he led armies in battle against the United States of America…
(when talking about "the North" vs "the South", or "the Union" vs "the Confederacy", it should be noted that "the Union" was what the United States of America was commonly called, back then. Any instance of "Union", should be replaced by "US"/"USA" or the non-abbreviated forms thereof. "The North" was the United States of America)
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or a man who disagreed with slavery

It is firmly well established, that Robert E. Lee was firmly pro-slavery, never spoke out against slavery, said that slavery was necessary (a "necessary evil", sure, but one that would remain necessary for the foreseeable future. He also said it was more beneficial to the enslaved black people, than the white slave owners)
…and, of course, made sure that a bunch of slaves that were to be freed, according to the will and testament of their recently deceased owner, remained slaves. (note: his slaves)
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but nevertheless felt compelled to defend his homeland?

Robert E. Lee did NOT fight to defend his homeland.
The US didn't attack his homeland.
They attacked the Confederacy.
They did not attack either the land, nor the civilians, of the Confederacy.
They fought to remove the government of the Confederacy, and reverse the illegal attempt at secession. (not a comment on whether secession should be illegal, just noting that it was …and still is)
The US forces posed no threat to his homeland.
Only to their "right" to keep black people as slaves
…which, as the founders of the Confederacy clearly stated, repeatedly, was the one and only reason that they seceded. The one and only reason they created the Confederacy, and what the Confederacy was based on.
Robert E. Lee, as well as the Confederacy, fought to keep the institution of slavery. Nothing else.

This is pure, well established, historical fact, and not up for debate.
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Yet I notice a…

Ah, so admit to knowing that what you said was false?
In other words:
You lied?
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Yet I notice a frequent trend to switch from, "CRT has a very specific definition" to "we're just teaching history" is very telling.

First you say "it's terrible that they say 'that isn't CRT', rather than deal with what they are complaining about" …and now you say "I find it terrible that they say 'that isn't CRT', and then go on to deal with what they are complaining about"?

Your switch from one, to the other, is very telling…
It is a clear admission that you are being purely dishonest, as you're completely changing your story as well as moving the goalposts.
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It's such a jarring transition from "The details are very important" to "Here's a very slanted and simplistic summation of a massive topic."

None of it is slanted or simplistic.
And you know it isn't.

How about you stop using cowardly and dishonest lies and tactics?

I'll tell you, what I told Peep:
How about you get a dose of integrity and/or self-respect, and start being honest?
If not, if you just continue to be more and more dishonest (you started out being at least partially honest, but…), then I see no point in wasting any more time on you.

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» Peep on November 8th, 2021, 11:36am

4x, 2x, 3x, lonely.
Quote from zarlan
I'll tell you, what I told Peep:
How about you get a dose of integrity and/or self-respect, and start being honest?


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Ain't gon' feed you, I'ma let you starve

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» Transdude1996 on November 8th, 2021, 12:42pm

I would suggest letting the topic die and stop debating the guy. I have a grandmother who repeats the exact same political points and circular discussions that go nowhere, and she remains absolutely flabbergasted that I would ever want more out of life than working for a paycheck 'till I'm 70 years old.

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» alidan on November 5th, 2021, 11:25pm

people like you make the world hell to live in and ruin everything you had no part in the creation of or the community said creations made, you are a parasite that latches on later and demanded everything change to suit your delicate sensibilities and then scream at everyone who doesn't like the direction said product went in to eff off and make their own.

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» zarlan on November 8th, 2021, 8:42am

Quote from alidan
people like you make the world hell to live in and ruin everything you had no part in the creation of or the community said creations made, you are a parasite that latches on later and demanded everything change to suit your delicate sensibilities and then scream at everyone who doesn't like the direction said product went in to eff off and make their own.

You perfectly describe yourself, and your ilk.
Projection at it's finest!

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» Cleotis on October 30th, 2021, 12:15pm

Although I think the object of the poll is important, I have reservations about the choices.
I think both are true.
Not giving offense to others is a part of civil society (emphasis on the civil). No one is going to advance themselves or their agenda -- in the long run -- by being an ass. Though there is admittedly evidence to the contrary.
At the same time it seems to me that a little charity is also sometimes called for from those who are quick to take offense. This is particularly called for when the "offense" isn't clear or understandable to others outside one's own group. An example of what I mean is the declaration of something (like food, for example) as being "cultural appropriation". Maybe the offending party just likes (for example) tacos. Just because you're a member of a particular ethnic or racial group should not mean that you are restricted to what your ancestors did in the past. No body grows by remaining in confinement; minds and lives are best when open to new influences.

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» zarlan on October 31st, 2021, 6:00pm

Quote from Cleotis
An example of what I mean is the declaration of something (like food, for example) as being "cultural appropriation".

Whilst cultural appropriation is a real, genuine, and serious issue…
Most things that are claimed to be examples of it, simply aren't.

When white music labels did their best to convince people that rock&roll is white music?
Textbook cultural appropriation.
"Stealing" a cultural thing. Making it seem like you own it, and the people who originally did, don't.

Someone wearing an Native American headdress, without the qualifications/right to it?

Yeah, that's probably appropriation.

Kim Kardashian "creating" a brand of tight figure-emphasizing lingerie, and trying to call it "kimono"? (because "Kim"…)
Gods Below…
That's appropriation, a complete ignorance of kimono, and just generally asinine.

Someone eating foods from a certain culture, not their own? Dressing in a poncho and/or sombrero? Or a kimono? Or something like that?
Not appropriation.
At all.
It is cultural appreciation, and the people of those cultures, tend to invite you to try, and be delighted if/when you do.
In fact, to say that someone can't wear/eat/enjoy those things, based on their ethnicity, is pure racism. It is saying that no peoples/cultures are allowed to interact, exchange, or be inspired/influenced by each other.
Also, doesn't that suggest that people should never learn a Second Language? …and that people shouldn't be allowed to emigrate/immigrate?
(also that westerners mustn't read/watch manga/LNs/anime, of course!)

A non-black person wearing dreadlocks?

Dreadlocks are not a black only thing, historically, and there is no evidence that it necessarily originates among black people. Even if that wasn't the case… See above answer concerning clothing.

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» Transdude1996 on October 31st, 2021, 6:21pm

Quote from zarlan
"Stealing" a cultural thing. Making it seem like you own it, and the people who originally did, don't.

So, the only region that can practice democracy and philosophy is Greece, the only region that can practice medical science and architecture is Egypt, the only region that practice mercantilism and engineering is Italy, the only region that can practice hydroponics and agriculture is Iraq, the only region that can practice military tactics and spirituality is Pakistan, the only region that can practice time-keeping is Mexico...do I need to go on?

To top it off, doesn't that mean I should be ridiculed, hauled off, and executed for the all the masses to enjoy because I (A man who's lineage doesn't have a single drop of Apulian blood, who are descended from the Grecian race) made, baked, and ate a calzone for dinner?

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» hkanz on October 30th, 2021, 1:58pm

Personally I think that neither are true. I have no opinion on what people ‘should’ say, since that’s their choice (unless it crosses the boundary into hate speech, which is illegal in Canada), but they also have to accept the consequences for what they say. If you have the right to make racist, sexist etc. comments, other people have the right to criticize you for it.

Likewise, while sometimes people are more sensitive than I would be about things, I have no right to dictate how sensitive they should be. We don’t all have the same emotions or the same life experiences that would make us feel a certain way about things, and listening to the person and trying to understand their perspective is more valuable IMO than just concluding they’re too sensitive.

Ultimately humans are just really messy. People are going to have different opinions and beliefs and disagree and that’s just how it is. If someone is at least trying to be kind to others I’m generally good with that person.

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» zarlan on October 31st, 2021, 6:04pm

Having the right to do something, is very different from it being right to do.
Saying that someone should do, or not do, X, or that they should be more/less Y, is not legislating or dictating anything.
As such, your comment is irrelevant and incoherent. (not meant to sound harsh …but it inevitably does)

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» Jooles on October 30th, 2021, 5:46pm

Both/Neither.

You should always keep yourself in check, and hold yourself to a high social standard. But at the same time, anyone that isn't taking full 100% responsibility for their own emotions/mental state/whateveryouwannacallit can... suck it.

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» Transdude1996 on October 30th, 2021, 7:06pm

Could I just declare that I'm failing to understand people's responses in relation to the current poll? While I disagree and agree with some of what's said, it's missing the actual question of the poll which is "Should people have the right to be assholes, yes or no?" Personally, my answer is "yes" (People are too easily offended by what others say) because it makes it all that much easier finding out which idiots I should avoid. And, if people are hauled off simple because they say or doing something that offends someone, then how "tolerant" and "free" of a culture are we? It's an all or nothing question.

That's also beside the fact someone, somewhere, is going to get their knickers in a knot regardless, so why give a damn in the first place?

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» Alwerien on October 31st, 2021, 6:33am

Both of these are rather true. People should be a bit more sensitive and careful what they say but at the same time there is too many people that get offended from basically nothing, best yet when it's on behalf of someone who actually doesn't care.

Also, twisting someone's words just so you could act offended is rather offensive as well.

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» Joese on October 31st, 2021, 10:05am

I prefer if there was an option of both , but I guess I'll go with "People should be careful about what they say to avoid offending others".

You can always seek people that aren't offended by what you say ,but I think there is no reason to be an ass** with people you aren't acquainted with. In the case someone finds offensive something you think is reasonable you can curtly state your disagreement, no need to say sorry to someone with bad intentions unless you're in danger for it.

Also, using vulgarisms ends up reducing your vocabulary and doesn't even help to state your point, but no one will die for listening them or for someone stating something politically incorrect. But offending someone with them purposely si an entirely different matter...

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» zarlan on October 31st, 2021, 6:14pm

Quote from Joese
Also, using vulgarisms ends up reducing your vocabulary

This is completely untrue.
A myth with not the faintest shred of any kind of basis in fact or experience.
In fact, the opposite is generally true.
Which makes sense:
How can you have less vocabulary, when you're the one not (completely pointlessly) excluding certain words?
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and doesn't even help to state your point

Yes it does. It absolutely does.
Well, it depends on how you use them, of course, but that's true of all words.

Also (as I believe you'd agree):
Not listening to things, because the person included vulgarisms in the statement, is pure idiotic foolishness.
…and being more offended by a statement that contained vulgarisms, than a statement that expresses things that are far more offensive/vile/despicable/immoral (and the statement with vulgarisms, not necessarily expressing anything offensive, or even containing any insults towards you), is not only idiotic foolishness of the highest order, but also deeply immoral.
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But offending someone with them purposely si an entirely different matter...

There are many instances where it is quite justified, and constructive, to purposely offend people. Even where it is, frankly, the most moral thing to do.

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» zarlan on October 31st, 2021, 5:41pm

Both statements are true, of course …but if I'd have to chose one, as being more true…
Yes, there are massive amounts of people, who are bigots arseholes, or who are just arseholes in general. People who either don't care at all, if they insult/offend others, or enjoy doing so. That is certainly a problem.
…but it is even more true that people have a tendency to be way too easily offended.
Absolutely.
You have people getting pointlessly offended, by things they shouldn't.
On all sides.

People tend to take any criticism or disagreement, of any kind, any implication that they are not 100% correct or infallible, as a serious and deeply offensive attack on their person. (even though it rarely has anything to do with them, as a person. It could be pointing out a flaw in an argument, a position, a belief, a manga they like… etc)
…and the "attack" doesn't even have to be what the "offensive" person even said/wrote/did, or anything that their statement/action could possibly be interpreted, in any sane way, as having said/meant.

Also:
It should be noted that arseholes who tend to say strongly and inexcusably/unjustifiably offensive things, also tend to be extremely sensitive and defensive towards any and all criticism towards themselves. They tend to be very oversensitive, have very fragile egos, which is part of why they feel the need to be so brash and offensive. (it's a way to overcompensate, and appear strong, to hide their weakness from all. Even from themselves, generally)

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» train93 on November 1st, 2021, 1:50pm

Trying not to be an a*****e sounds better to me than expecting others to tolerate me being an a*****e.

Of course there are shades that can't be fully encapsuled by a two-choice poll, but it's disheartening to see that the majority of people who voted think that being respectful is optional.

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» Ceiye on November 2nd, 2021, 11:42pm

Oh wow, you mad lad, you actually made the poll. I'm going to avoid the comments because I'd rather not read anything from the saddest straw man if I can help it. Talk about people who are easily offended by what others say.

I don't think it's a hot take, but if you wouldn't say something to someone's face in real life, maybe don't say it. It's not a matter of offense when someone tells you why they are not comfortable with you saying something and you choose to ignore it. Or knowing that saying something would actively hurt someone. That's just called being a dick

There is a line, but it's not where I think a lot of people voting the second answer think it is, and it's fairly far into the heavy internet use spheres. Here's a recent example. Let's say Person A really likes Shounen Jump and Person B that Shounen Jump isn't really their thing. Person A might feel like Person B is invalidating a part of themselves because they've dedicated so much of their life on the internet reading, discussing, and loving Shounen Jump, so much so that it's become part of who they are. Person A goes on an entire rant in reply to Person B's fairly innocuous comment and again bringing up straw man arguments. And I hope I don't need to point out that liking Shounen Jump isn't a part of your identity and people who dislike Shounen Jump aren't going around trying to shut down Shounen Jump because they think it's shit or something (if you try to link me to some Japanese PTA trying to ban big titty 2D GFs, might I point you to the Straw Man again). You can replace Shounen Jump in this example with any interests, like music, video games, TV shows, etc. People devote so much into their interests that it seems like it becomes part of their core identity, and while I can relate to that, people saying they dislike the thing isn't something to get heated up over
Now, if someone went into a fan forum for the subject or something like that and ranted about how much they hated the subject and how everyone who likes it is a dumbass, that's just being mean and again, not something someone would say in real life. I'm not going to go to a Cilantro Lovers convention and say that I abhor that gross weed.

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» Sugarshark on November 3rd, 2021, 3:45pm

The Chappelle example isn't the jokes being told in a vacuum, to the audience. context matters
The context is DC had a 'friend' that was a comedian and trans, named Daphne Dormer and was the opening act for several legs of his tour. That same 'friend' died a year ago by suicide, after some prolonged harassment/backlash from defending David from charges that he was transphobic.

Fast forward a year later to the special, and you have Daphne's name invoked to shame "the cancel culture" as being a contributing factor in her death(which is an outwardly good thing to do) but then have DC hoist the TERF Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist flag only minutes later and disavow any validation for the existence of his dead 'friend'.
It's a good thing Daphne was already dead; surely that act coming from someone they idolized their whole life and considered to be a good friend, would have killed her.
Most of the charges against DC is that Daphne was a comedy prop and was exploited. Even after death 😕

Trying to use dictionary definitions, or legalese to appropriate membership to a group is offensive.
Any man who says "I am the king" is no true king

I did get membership to a group at one time in the past; but I don't feel any entitlement to membership in a similar group even when the goals of the similar group are identical to the first group.

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» Transdude1996 on November 3rd, 2021, 4:57pm

Hold up, if I'm understanding this right, YOU are the ones committing a public offense.

On the first count, you're assuming one's opinions and views based solely upon how they express themselves publicly (That's called racism/sexism/etc.); not only of Chapelle, but also of his dead friend. On the second count, you are invoking the name of a dead person for no other reason than to create a witch-hunt. On the third count, you're committing the most basic form of tribalism, where you assume that because one criticizes or humors "A", that means they must subscribe to "B" (For example, you're declaring that Mel Brooks (A Jew) is a Nazi because he dressed up as Hitler in To Be Or Not To Be).

There's no other way to around it, you are the villains in this scenario.

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» Peep on November 4th, 2021, 1:11am

The Sopranos is one of the highest rated tv shows, it has a lot of depth of character, huge fan following, and some of the most hilarious and quotable dialogue, but if it would not be made today. Even David Chase the creator and producer said so, that people nowadays are to let the go ahead. I wonder how many other great projects we have missed out on.
In my opinion, the majority of tv and movies coming out lately are trash, I'm not sure if that is because of a lack of decent writers or if showrunners have a proverbial sword of Damocles hovering over their heads if they offend anybody so they tow the line.

Quote
DC hoist the TERF Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist flag only minutes later and disavow any validation for the existence of his dead 'friend'.

I do not understand that part - the hoisting flag part, what statement was made? I know that terf is women that do not accept MTF as women. I know a lot of "transgender", I think both sides have some merit, but I honestly do not believe people can ever change sex (the McLaughlin vs Provost "fight" was ugly) so spaces specific to a certain sex should be respected.

Oh, that is the context? Still, I don't believe there'd be such drama if it was only that though. People waste a lot of their energy on stupid issues like that though, they could using their platforms on issues such as the environment & pollution.
Some people deal with pain in different ways, some people use humour "That guy was such a s.o.b, remember when he.." etc. For a comedian to use their experiences to entertain is normal, they use their ex-wives/husbands, their kids, their mothers, their finances. Too many people want to put trans on a pedestal, which is silly because if people want to be accepted as normal they need to have the same duck water off back attitude everybody else has to take.
Censoring people just makes their supporters start to hate the vocal minority that drummed up the drama storm, which causes more separation and less understanding. It is through dialogue that people find understanding in each other.

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» Transdude1996 on November 4th, 2021, 7:40am

Quote from Peep
In my opinion, the majority of tv and movies coming out lately are trash, I'm not sure if that is because of a lack of decent writers or if showrunners have a proverbial sword of Damocles hovering over their heads if they offend anybody so they tow the line.

Biggest assumption I've seen people come to is that majority of today's media was created as a product to appeal to women (Because of the 2000's mindset that "Women hold the purse-strings", and, yes, they do teach that in "Advertising 101" ). Nothing wrong with that in-and-of-itself (Hell, shoujo like Sailor Moon and Futari wa Precure is insanely popular with everyone), however, surprise surprise, most people like media that appeals to men.

That being said, things have only gotten even worse over the past decade because, as I referenced earlier, , so media companies are focussing less on appealing to women and more on appealing to whatever political ideals the current government administration has.

Quote from Peep
they could using their platforms on issues such as the environment & pollution.

They can't do that because China and India are the source of almost 90% of the pollution in the world, and watch as they heel turn on the issue when that's brought up.

Quote from Peep
Too many people want to put trans on a pedestal, which is silly because if people want to be accepted as normal they need to have the same duck water off back attitude everybody else has to take.

That's where you misunderstand, they DO NOT wanted to be treated as "equals". What they WANT is to be treated as better than everyone else.

Quote from zarlan
So you dismiss the words of a person, due to their chosen style? (in this case: Intentionally dishevelled)
Because whether someone is correct, or has good/valuable information, depends on how they looks?

The only reasonable answer is yes. The way people look tends to reflect their views. That's not always the case (As I said earlier), but it's a good rule to abide by in general. That's also beside the fact that it's infamously known that you can have two people saying the same exact things, but each presenting it in a different manner, and people respond better to one person over the other because of that.

Quote from zarlan
Oh, and

It's an hour long video...
User Posted Image

Quote from zarlan
For the same reason that any other unjustly oppressed and discriminated group is. ... Just because of how they were born.

Oh, no, it's retarded. It's comparing a fetish to race and sex.

Quote from zarlan
You're seriously saying that transgender people should stop seeking to be allowed to exist?

You know what, YES, I DO, JUST SO THAT I WOULDN'T HAVE TO PUT UP WITH ALL THIS BITCHING ALL THE TIME. I never asked for these people to exist, and I can't think of a single sane person that would, so why not tell them that they can't exist?

Quote from zarlan
Also, the left has nowhere near as many extremists, as the right.

And, all the Burning, and Looting, and Murdering last year doesn't count, because...?

Quote from zarlan
People with unearned wealth and/or power, who take all the profits, but don't pay for the things that let them gain the money, and do their very best to make sure that they don't.

If you believe in that so heavily, are you going to delete your social media accounts? And cancel you streaming subscriptions? And, stop ordering everything off of Amazon? And, turn off the news? If you don't do ANY and ALL of that, you're making your statement invalid as your proving that those companies and people have EARNED their wealth and power through your continued usage of their services and products.

THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE UNITED STATES! It gave private citizens the power to decided who does and does not deserve to succeed and reap the rewards of that. We're not like every other country on the planet, where companies are either owned by the government or fund their business entirely on government grants. Even that link I quoted earlier points out the EGS Funds are for investing, essentially bonds/stocks that will need to be paid back later.

Quote from zarlan
No country is, has ever been, nor will any ever exist …as communism is about a revolution that is always, inevitably, hi-jacked by fascism. (note: fascism is far-right. Not left)

How can a "Far Left" ideology be hijacked by a "Far Right" ideology in any and all circumstances unless (1) there is nothing distinguishing the two in the first place or (2) the "Far Left" do something so egregiously horrific that they cause the pendulum to swing back in the opposite direction with even greater force?

Quote from zarlan
Yeah, because it is so great to have manga that promotes rape, slavery, torture, misogyny, discrimination, zealous nationalism, historical revisionism… etc etc

Care to list actual examples? The only things coming to mind are hentai, unless you're taking series like Joshikousei Nobunaga-chan!! and Bonnou Saiyuuki as blatant fact.

Quote from zarlan
who are typically all virgins, who have never had a girlfriend …for very good reasons

Because they have no money (Outside of welfare) as a result of the Japanese market crashing back in the 90's, and their only option to make money is to slave away at an 18 hour job that would result in them not seeing their spouse anyway (Outside of Sundays)?

Quote from zarlan
Nothing about TERF, means that you are a woman.

Doesn't that open the possibility that there are trannies who could be identified as "TERFs"? And, doesn't that make the entire issue extremely stupid that you're getting your panties in a wad over this?

Quote from zarlan
Yeah, the slaves should have just accepted their enslavement, with a duck water off back attitude…
As should the Jews have accepted their circumstances, in Nazi Germany…

Couple issues with those remarks. First, in almost every single culture that has practiced slavery, slaves did have the ability to BUY their freedom. So, at the end of the day, remaining a slave is a choice. Second, Hitler did give the Jews several options: they had the choice to pack up everything and leave on their own funds, they had the option to have the German government fund their immigration to Palestine or Madagascar, and they had the option to join the army (But, only if you were is half-Jewish).

Quote from Peep
Later we are just left with Power Rangers and Care Bears because those are not deemed offensive.

That's where you're wrong. Power Rangers is "offensive" because it depicts people using violence to solve problems. And, Care Bears is offensive because they show "world" is tailored towards enticing people to treat others in certain ways instead of allowing for a diversity of opinions and how people can be treated.

And, then there's China, where they banned Ultraman.

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» Sugarshark on November 4th, 2021, 12:54pm

I think gender and it's mental component (which didn't have a lot of research except in the last 30 years)
when I had it explained to me, the speaker referenced cadaver studies which I'm to be believe is a thing where you can have a brain and it can be identified as a male or female brain in the absence of any other data/the remainder of the body.
And the overwhelming majority of trans participants of the cadaver studies (brains)were identified as the gender they identify as.
I do love the human body and its mechanisms for adaptation and neuroplasticity.
maybe that's awkward to mention, after talking about cadavers.

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» Transdude1996 on November 4th, 2021, 4:26pm

Quote from Sugarshark
when I had it explained to me, the speaker referenced cadaver studies which I'm to be believe is a thing where you can have a brain and it can be identified as a male or female brain in the absence of any other data/the remainder of the body.

Just did a quick search, and , meanwhile .

However, that's all beside the issue that I don't believe trannies actually care about what science has to say or what it can do. Even if, hypothetically, they did invent some wonder-drug that causes one's genitals to turn inside-out and become functioning sexual organs (Not to mention all the other factors), I and several other have come to the conclusion that they'd protest up and down to make it's usage banned and outlawed. Because it would take attention away from them. Because they're no longer "special".
Spoiler (mouse over to view)
Not to mention to the fact that, if science really did reach to that point, morals would either degrade because who would honestly give a damn anymore about sexual preferences when they can be changed on the fly, or strict conservatism would extremely ramp up because people would want to procreate with genuine men or women rather than the "abominations" that science has created. In either scenario, trannies would become irrelevant.

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» Peep on November 5th, 2021, 7:57am

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Quote from julia36
Lol at a guy named Transdude complaining about social justice groups.

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Quote from zarlan
He's a troll. Just ignore him. I am constantly amazed, at why he hasn't been banned, ages ago,


Behold! The man that claims cancel culture does not exist, was trying (or at least hoping) to get a user banned from a forum because he did not like their views. Don't like what somebody says, accuse them of being a troll/bigot and get them banned.
Zarlan comes to the thread, claims the poll is invalidated because cancel culture apparently does not exist, then tries vehemently to convince people of his niche opinions that nobody has shown support for..

I can't even be bothered to reply to Zarlan's manuscripts anymore because he is clearly delusional pseudo-intellectual, like he refuses to read transdude's replies, yet I am expected to extend what he does not confer to others (I might as well read Wheel of Time chapters; much better writing). Not sure on his goal, other than claiming that I am lying and in actuality deep down I support his claims...
I never knew the UK had so many delusional people, maybe cause I've not lived there in awhile. Zarlan will only be happy when he can institute his own version of laws upon the world, in his world people can decide whatever their mental gender is, mental gender shall be the equivalent of birth sex, and all men shall be required to date women (men in dresses) otherwise they are "transphobic", and women shall be subjugated by force and death threats.
When the world is greeted with a leftwing politician (AOC) that won't even use the word women and opts for "menstruating person", then you know one of their goals is the elimination of women.

The thing is the poll is 56.5% in favour of "People are too easily offended", and had lamb phrased the question differently then it'd be more one sided. I did not know the context of the question till I hit up the forum, had the question been more of "do you support cancel culture to punish those you dislike?" "Yes there should be consequences for what you say/no, people are too sensitive and trying to get people fired is too far."

I found this channel earlier, and they have some apt and comical videos.
Basically what cancel culture supporters want to do:
The only achievable thing by cancel culture is to destroy people's lives and make them hate others for causing it.

The type of people they are:
Thankfully that type of person will always remain a minority, and all they can do is huddle together on twitter, unleash rage spirit bombs at anybody they can find not perfectly resembling them. The rest of the world embraces freedom of expression over censorship.

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» blackkittycat15 on November 6th, 2021, 7:23am

I feel like a lot of this relies on intent. Let's say two people go out to eat. One is a vegetarian and the other is not, is it rude for that person to order a meat dish? If the person is doing it to spite the other person, they should be more careful about what they say/do (but they won't, they're trolls. Some people are just assholes). However if the person likes chicken tendies and ordered some chicken tendies there's no intent, so how the vegetarian feels is entirely their issue. In my eyes it's more offensive to tell people what to do, so if the vegetarian pushes their beliefs on the other, that's way more offensive (and vise versa).

At that point can you have differences without offending each other? I know people who are offended by gays, should they have to act hetero-normative to avoid offended those people? People need to learn to get tougher skin to respect differences even if they dislike that difference. Though it's fine to feel offended over something, but it's how you handle it afterwards that matters. I feel like that's something the individual needs to work on rather than push responsibility on to everyone they meet and blame them.

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» zarlan on November 8th, 2021, 8:45am


👍

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» Peep on November 6th, 2021, 7:39am

- "A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities"
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Open University, was due to give a talk at Essex University about placing transgender women in women’s prisons, students threatened to barricade the hall. They complained that Ms Phoenix was a “transphobe” likely to engage in “hate speech”. A flyer with an image of a gun and text reading “shut the fuck up, terf” (trans-exclusionary radical feminist, a slur) was circulating. The university told Ms Phoenix it was postponing the event. Then the sociology department asked her for a copy of her talk. Days later it told her it had voted to rescind its invitation, and would issue no more.
[...]
Eighteen months later, in mid-May, the university published Ms Reindorf’s report on its website. It said Essex had infringed Ms Phoenix’s right to freedom of expression and that its decision to “exclude and blacklist” her was also unlawful. It advised the university to apologise to Ms Phoenix and to Rosa Freedman, a professor of law at Reading University whom it had excluded from an event during Holocaust Memorial Week “because of her views on gender identity”. (Essex in the end allowed Ms Freedman to attend.)
Ms Reindorf’s report marks a challenge to the transgender dogma that originated on American campuses and has spread to universities around the English-speaking world.


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In May, after students at Abertay University in Dundee reported that a student had said at a seminar that women have vaginas and men are stronger, the university launched an investigation.


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In America lawsuits invoking free speech may make a difference. But it would be better if universities, which owe their success to a tradition of dissent and debate, did in fact defend it.


That may work in USA where the laws and culture seek to protect freedom of speech, but maybe not the EU (I doubt non EU European countries are as culturally corrupt). It's still pretty sad a university had to be sued in order to end their witch hunt.
Even the prospect of a discussion gets you labelled as evil and you need to be bleached and scrubbed from society.


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These organisations claim to represent LGB members of their parties. They don’t. They’re mainly peopled by activists linked to the plethora of LGBTQ+ lobby groups such as Stonewall that have grown bloated on huge funding, much of it from the taxpayer, and who use their undue influence to misinterpret and undermine both the spirit and the letter of existing law. This ‘Stonewall Law’, however loudly and persistently it is repeated, is not in fact the law of the land.


Use taxes to fund an organization that will try to censor the media and universities (which also receive tax money).., then the government claims it doe snot have enough money to fund schools/libraries/The National Health Service (NHS).

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» Tiber727 on November 8th, 2021, 1:47pm

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No it's opposition to fascism …and anyone who doesn't, is thereby okay with (if not straight up in favour of) fascism
…but even if you say that it's a political movement with no organization, that still makes your argument about Antifa, completely incoherent.


They are Antifa, therefore everything they do is antifascist, because they are called Antifa. They cannot be wrong. There is nothing to discuss. All of their policy ideas are valid and necessary to oppose fascism, because they are called Antifa. Everything they do is justified so long as they are named Antifa. So long as they do not commit more than the statistically average amount of violence for a protest, there is nothing to critique about their methods. Violence comes with the protest package. It's just part of life. Those counter-protestors though, they have no excuse.

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That's not how it actually works.

It's exacltly how it works.


The Supreme Court says otherwise, but I guess a random person on the internet knows more than them.

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At no point, have I defined a powerful and controlling government, as right-wing.
If you have a powerful and controlling government, which is properly democratic, and hence carry out the will of the people…
That isn't inherently right-wing, at all. (I dunno that I'd say it's inherently anti-right, either)
A powerful and controlling government, controlled by a dictator or unaccountable elites/oligarchs, however…
That is right-wing.


If I understand you correctly, the definition of a left-wing government is a government that the people agree with, and the definition of a right-wing government is a government that the people oppose. In other words, you have literally defined left vs. right as good vs. bad. So by that definition, a government that bans gay marriage, that has no social programs, and has a state religion is left wing so long as the people voted it that way. Conversely, if the people opposed gay marriage but a dictator legalized gay marriage by fiat, they would be right-wing. But I'm sure you'd add a whole bunch of other rules that would contradict this, because you provided no definition. You define specific goals your opponents have to meet (regardless of if it was even what they are saying), while making unproven, sweeping statements like "People who oppose what they call "CRT" are opposed to teaching children actual history."

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Citation needed on people breaking the law or inflicting punishment.

Aside from how you are ignoring the chilling effect, of how many don't speak up out of fear, non-punishment forms of negative consequences from not reciting the pledge (such as being shunned/ostracized), the fact that you still have to endure the pledge-reciting (whether you participate or not), and other issues…


The chilling effect of being shunned/ostracized? If only there were some kind of phrase for a culture that is quick to ostracize others for perceived moral slights. Nah, that doesn't exist. In any case, people broke the law. The kid in Maryland got multiple articles written *because* it was blatantly wrong. It's slam-dunk views for a reporter because it is so obviously wrong and gets clicks. If it were happening all the time it wouldn't be newsworthy. And did you just slip in a link to "Vax choice" complaining about vaccines?

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It's not even like we're particularly patriotic anyway.

LMAO!
That is the single most absurd thing you have said!
The US is infamous for being about as ludicrously zealously nationalistic, as you could possibly be.


Me: Here's a link from noted left wing site Vox with actual statistics.
Statistics! Ha! I don't need statistics when I know I'm right! Now, back to me complaining about how my opponents don't use logic.

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I didn't choose CRT as a name

You chose to use it, even though you know full well, that the term (used in that way) is a dishonest lie.


I'm more than happy to say I oppose "anti-racism" (note the quotes, because the name is not what it is). But CRT is the buzzword, and thus the conversation follows the buzzword. I agree CRT is not the best name. But here's the funny thing. Both sides are playing the branding game. The left says, "CRT is a scapegoat because they don't want to say what they're really against!" And this is true, but not in the way they imply. The left calls their beliefs "Anti-racism" because the name sounds positive. Much like "Antifa," if anyone says they oppose Anti-racism, they must be racist because Anti-racism is no more and no less than opposing racism because it says so right in the name. And as evidenced above, this incredibly stupid line of reasoning apparently works. The left says, "We're just teaching actual history!" because they don't want to say what they're actually for. It implies there is only one true account of history, and it's their account of history.

Meanwhile, they do stupid things like

What is actually happening and whether it's good or bad is not the focus. It's all just vapid posturing to appear good and smart. And by the way, the argument isn't that 2nd-graders are being taught some obscure legal theory. The idea is that is that While I still dislike the name, CRT is hardly unrelated to what is happening here, even if the name is a stretch.

(P.S. Yes I know I'm never going to "win" the argument, but I enjoy pointing out bad logic.)

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» Transdude1996 on November 8th, 2021, 2:36pm

Quote from Tiber727
The left calls their beliefs "Anti-racism" because the name sounds positive.

That, and because they didn't get the results they wanted by encouraging people to not be "racist". Notice how the new slogan is "Be Anti-Racist" as opposed to the old slogan of simply "Don't be racist". Also, all Wannabe Dictators love playing with words because they get to establish the definitions on the fly. Look no further than the CCP changing every political definition to "It's X with Chinese characteristics".

Quote from Tiber727
(P.S. Yes I know I'm never going to "win" the argument, but I enjoy pointing out bad logic.)

If you really want him to short circuit, you could point that the person who started slavery in the Americas was , who took it to court that he owned his indentured servants for life.

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» whitespade on November 12th, 2021, 4:23am

Cancel culture is just like the shame culture of previous era but in reverse. Back then you will be cancelled, shunned, and possibly killed for being whatever it is - gay, black, trans, disabled, a non virgin woman, etc. Nowadays (in primarily European/ Anglosphere culture) you will be cancelled and shunned for saying anything against these group.

So I don't think people are becoming more sensitive or whatever, it's just the target group of being sensitive against is different. Or maybe even less sensitive. I mean, how sensitive are you that a black man sharing your water fountain make you so angry and that you want to kill someone?

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» zarlan on November 12th, 2021, 8:29am

You think that people aren't still shunned, shamed, ostracized, given threats of assault/death/rape, or are assault/death/rape, for being: LGBTIA, someone who tolerates/accepts LGBTIA, someone who talks about LGBTIA, disabled, a non-virgin, a non-christian, non-white, any other minority, tolerating/accepting minorities, someone who dares to wear a mask during the pandemic, being against sexism, making a video/computer game that has female characters that aren't ludicrously hyper-sexualized and/or isn't violent… etc?
Really?
Where do you live? Jupiter? You clearly also pay no attention to any news media, social media etc.

The non-woke people, are the people who are the most fierce and aggressive, against people they disagree with. On any issue, there are some on all sides who make threats (which is bad and unjustified), fire people (which can be perfectly justified …or not), some who disinvite people from events (which is perfectly valid and justifiable, as is the rest that follows. Demanding that one not be allowed to do so, on the other hand, would be an utterly unjustified and fascistic act), cancel shows, call for a person to be fired, shame others etc etc
…but the non-woke and the right wing, have always been the ones who do it most, and most fiercely.
They had more power to have it implemented, in the past, but they have never stopped.

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